Jorge Navarro has the yankee cap on

[alhattab]

Originally Posted by cj

He does, but you can say that about nearly every other trainer too.

I feel dirty even slightly defending Navarro.

The discussion seems to be centering around either no penalty/suspension or bam from the game. I think a suspension is a reasonable outcome. 3-6 months or something like that. He's a guy that has been caught cheating before, and gave a big public FU to those that support the game. That's enough for me. If he did this in private and was recorded that doesn't make him feel any cleaner but would certainly call any commission/regulatory action into question and I think Navarro would have a legal case. But he did this on the grounds of a racetrack at which he is licensed to run his business and I presume uphold some standard of integrity!

[VigorsTheGrey]

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac...-gindi-navarro

I guess the video is no longer available at youtube, also.
How does that work...Does some lawyer contact youtube...?

[picojim]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac...-gindi-navarro

I guess the video is no longer available at youtube, also.
How does that work...Does some lawyer contact youtube...?

YouTube

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by Big Peps

Agree 100%, in addition his owner was the one who started the mess. Navarro looks really bad in the video but certainly not enough to ban him from racing at this point.

Where are the failed tests from the Monmouth meet? If he is who people think he is then there has to be proof, until then not much I think you can do.

I think we all have our beliefs as to what's going on but until there is concrete evidence and more than some goof ball owner acting like a complete tool I would say there isn't much that can be done, other than what they have.

Catch the guy, then ban him. Until then all eyes on Mr Navarro

He was banned from Tampa for the entire 2013 and 2014 racing meet. He has another positive at Tampa that he said he would "vigorously" defend. He then appears in a video where his top owner is acting like a moron. He says in the video "is that a Navarro horse at 2/1" and adds "adios amigos" when Marcials horse Sir Sebastian pulls away from the field. Is that video not enough for a racing entity to say he may be a detriment to our product, which is based on public perception as one of the main ingredients. He is living in the fast lane and the road is coming to an end quickly!

[Fager Fan]

I understand where CJ is coming from and somewhat agree. This guy is easy picking. He's worse for racing than the guy who had 7 horses drop dead for no apparent reason? I don't think so. That guy's not easy picking though. Nor are some other top trainers, many of which maybe many like personally.

I'd be more in favor of there being some clear guidelines about what constitutes behavior that can get one fined, suspended, or ruled off permanently. As much as I may think Navarro is a cheat, I think some at the top are as well, and this shouldn't be about who is popular or wields some racing power, and we only go after the low hanging fruit like Navarro and Maria Borell.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by Frost king

Ellis who got caught at the Breeder's Cup lives to fight another day, and Navarro, who uttered a few words is vilified?

Ellis is a class act

[cj]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Ellis is a class act

What exactly makes him a class act? I always wonder about statements like this. He basically had his horse on a steroid cycling program in my opinion. Is that classy?

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by cj

What exactly makes him a class act? I always wonder about statements like this. He basically had his horse on a steroid cycling program in my opinion. Is that classy?

I agree with you CJ.

'Class act' was meant as sarcasm(hard to express in an internet post).

'Class act' was also the mantra/defense-of Ellis by his supporters; - even after he circumvented the rules to put his horses on a steroid cycle, then pushed those loopholes to the very limit, then was aware that he failed the test, and then opted to run his horse anyway in the Breeders Cup Sprint (thumbing his nose at the game and at horseplayers).


Navarro has no such facade of 'class'.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

I agree with you CJ.

'Class act' was meant as sarcasm(hard to express in an internet post).

'Class act' was also the mantra/defense-of Ellis by his supporters; even after he circumvented the rules to put his horses on a steroid cycle, then pushed those loopholes to the very limit, then was aware that he failed the test, and then opted to run his horse anyway in the Breeders Cup Sprint (thumbing his nose at the game and at horseplayers).


Navarro has no such facade of 'class'.

I was a little slow on the draw there. After I posted that I seemed to remember us discussing him before. Sorry about that.

[Andy Asaro]

My experience with Ellis is that he is a great guy although I understand where those who disagree are coming from. He thought he was following the rules and once he found out there was a chance at a positive no matter how small he should have scratched.

He's always friendly with me and even at the most vicious times in the 2011 boycott we could always have a friendly conversation. Anyway that's my experience. He's a lot like he's on TVG.

[Franco Santiago]

If Roger Goodell was the commish of racing, what punishment would Navarro serve for "conduct detrimental to the game"?

He has been suspended before many times.

Goodell would ban him for life.

Easy call. Enough is enough with these characters (kindly put). Send the message.

[clicknow]

Fining Navarro or anyone suspected of cheating (including the ones who are "too big to fail" and never even receive a hand-slap) does nothing to restore to the bettors what they have lost.

There should be large fines for the higher ups / leadership who have allowed us to KEEP GETTING BILKED this way.

All the fine $$ should go towards race horse retirement fund, so that the other "disrespected parties" (the horses) can be made whole in some way.

Because I like my hard earned money, I have slowly extricated out of wagering on North American racing.

It's pretty sad when solid fans have to just walk away, isn't it?

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by clicknow

Fining Navarro or anyone suspected of cheating (including the ones who are "too big to fail" and never even receive a hand-slap) does nothing to restore to the bettors what they have lost.

There should be large fines for the higher ups / leadership who have allowed us to KEEP GETTING BILKED this way.

All the fine $$ should go towards race horse retirement fund, so that the other "disrespected parties" (the horses) can be made whole in some way.

Because I like my hard earned money, I have slowly extricated out of wagering on North American racing.

It's pretty sad when solid fans have to just walk away, isn't it?

I saw this same argument on another forum, the response was should the bettors who made lots of $ off the cheaters be required to return it? In anything in life buyer beware. No one wants the betting public to walk away from this game, they are needed as much as any other participant. There needs to be immediate action when someone is causing harm to the product. If Dennis Drazin wanted to he would have taken a different approach and told Navarro you are done. But since Navarro is a large contributor to the horse population at MP Drazin did what any business owner who is fearful of the competition would do, he made a decision that the video wasn't a true reflection of who Navarro really was and told everyone that Navarro wont ever do this again. The problem here is Navarro has said he wouldn't do lots of bad things again, and still did those same exact things, again. Time for a change has come, Navarro isn't welcome at MP just ask the other trainers, owners and bettors!

[MonmouthParkJoe]

Curious to see the stance that the Breeders Cup takes on this. Looks like Sharp Azteca will point towards the dirt mile.

[Tom]

After that video, amazing any track would allow him on the grounds.

But I guess the way they time races at theses track, their image is of not concern to them.


No problem, lots of tracks out there.....