Did Martin Garcia do the right turn body slam on Follow Me Crev on purpose?

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Dahoss9698

It could?

Trouble is trouble. If you clobber a horse at the start their chances are hurt. Yes it would hurt a front runner more but it still hurts.

I will give you an extreme example, but I don't think it would have harmed Vigors or Whirlaway one bit to be clobbered at the start, unless it injured them.

If cj is right that FMC was going to be closer up, then it hurt him. If Kent was going to put him that far back anyway, then it's just a bump at the start, and bumps happen all the time in racing.

[cj]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I will give you an extreme example, but I don't think it would have harmed Vigors or Whirlaway one bit to be clobbered at the start, unless it injured them.

If cj is right that FMC was going to be closer up, then it hurt him. If Kent was going to put him that far back anyway, then it's just a bump at the start, and bumps happen all the time in racing.

Your analysis Holy Bull's Travers gives me "concern" when I see you discussing closers. 😀

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I will give you an extreme example, but I don't think it would have harmed Vigors or Whirlaway one bit to be clobbered at the start, unless it injured them.

If cj is right that FMC was going to be closer up, then it hurt him. If Kent was going to put him that far back anyway, then it's just a bump at the start, and bumps happen all the time in racing.

The point is the contact took something out of him. I'm not sure why that seems to be lost on you.

But by all means give me another example from 40 years ago as if it applies to today.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by cj

Your analysis Holy Bull's Travers gives me "concern" when I see you discussing closers. 😀

Really? Concern's last fraction sucked in that race, and he got a perfect trip.

I saw Concern at his absolute best, in the 1995 Californian. His closing kick in that race would have blown by Holy Bull.

[cj]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Really? Concern's last fraction sucked in that race, and he got a perfect trip.

I saw Concern at his absolute best, in the 1995 Californian. His closing kick in that race would have blown by Holy Bull.

I guess you haven't revisited that thread. You said a 27 final quarter would have win it. He ran well below a 26. Final quarter was 26.06 and he gained nearly a full four lengths. Conservatively that puts his last quarter at 25.44

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by Dahoss9698

Can someone with a database run a query on when Baffert runs an uncoupled entry. I'm curious how often the longer priced horse wins and what the ROI is.

curious as well. I second that request.


If it isn't a standalone profit, it's significant enough in contrast with most other trainers' uncoupled entries.

Baffert clearly doesn't object to the longer priced horse winning, and while (trusting the public's opinion of uncoupled entries) may be a generally safe heuristic, Baffert uncoupled entries require you to buck social proof, and do your homework from scratch.



guessing 'why?'
Perhaps part of it may be that Baffert can train a horse into stakes fitness without climbing an obvious class ladder.
Another contributing factor is the public's blind faith in whoever Baffert's latest now horse happens to be.
When a vulnerable 'now' horse, and a horse whom Baffert has basically trained-up to the race (layoff or class hike), meet, it's worth having a very open mind.

[Robert Fischer]

American Freedom is a horse that can make the conspiracy theorists go crazy.

• Entered into the Pat Day Mile as a highly touted superstar
• Entered into the Travers as 'Baffert's 'A'
• Entered into the Alysheba as a 'thriving, improving' Grade 1 horse
• Entered into the Gold Cup as 'Baffert's 'A'

Puppetmaster Baffert pulling strings

even has a CIA propaganda-quality name for the job.

[Andy Asaro]

From Mike Marten a few minutes ago.


Here is Darrel McHargue’s response, Andy

I spoke with the stewards at Santa Anita about the start of the 8th race that ran on Saturday regarding the actions of jockey Martin Garcia who rode #1 American Freedom. Mr. Garcia was not invited in to review the recordings of the start. The stewards criteria for calling a jockey in to review a start is: if a rider is negligent or slow to react to straighten his/her mount when it breaks inward or outward then that rider is called in and the incident is reviewed which may result in a sanction. In this instance after reviewing the incident they were of the opinion Mr. Garcia reacted in a timely manner and made a determined effort to straighten his mount, therefore he was not invited in to watch the race with the stewards. This policy is also followed at Golden Gate.



Nice to be with B.B.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

From Mike Marten a few minutes ago.


Here is Darrel McHargue’s response, Andy

I spoke with the stewards at Santa Anita about the start of the 8th race that ran on Saturday regarding the actions of jockey Martin Garcia who rode #1 American Freedom. Mr. Garcia was not invited in to review the recordings of the start. The stewards criteria for calling a jockey in to review a start is: if a rider is negligent or slow to react to straighten his/her mount when it breaks inward or outward then that rider is called in and the incident is reviewed which may result in a sanction. In this instance after reviewing the incident they were of the opinion Mr. Garcia reacted in a timely manner and made a determined effort to straighten his mount, therefore he was not invited in to watch the race with the stewards. This policy is also followed at Golden Gate.



Nice to be with B.B.

Business as usual, nothing to see here.

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by cj

Business as usual, nothing to see here.

McHargue is really something else. This is about the fifth time he's come up with strange statements like this. Given the history you at least gotta call him in.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

American Freedom is a horse that can make the conspiracy theorists go crazy.

• Entered into the Pat Day Mile as a highly touted superstar
• Entered into the Travers as 'Baffert's 'A'
• Entered into the Alysheba as a 'thriving, improving' Grade 1 horse
• Entered into the Gold Cup as 'Baffert's 'A'

Puppetmaster Baffert pulling strings

even has a CIA propaganda-quality name for the job.

Just as an aside Baffert did not think he was the A going into the Travers. Thats not speculation but a fact.

I have no idea what he thought of him last weekend.

[cj]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

Just as an aside Baffert did not think he was the A going into the Travers. Thats not speculation but a fact.

I have no idea what he thought of him last weekend.

It is like the only race the stewards ever remember if the last one. I guess that is why Kent gets let off all the time too.

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by cj

It is like the only race the stewards ever remember if the last one. I guess that is why Kent gets let off all the time too.

The system drives me absolutely friggin nuts out here. All politics all the time. They've taken at least 20 years off my life.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by cj

I guess you haven't revisited that thread. You said a 27 final quarter would have win it. He ran well below a 26. Final quarter was 26.06 and he gained nearly a full four lengths. Conservatively that puts his last quarter at 25.44

I looked at the race. I had misremembered the last fraction-- I remembered the 1:35 to 2:02 but Holy Bull's last fraction was only 26 flat as you state.

It's still painfully slow (by comparison, Cupid, nobody's idea of a great horse, ran 25 2/5 on Saturday, and Follow Me Crev, a plodder, ran 24 3/5), but it's not as slow as I remembered it.

[cj]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I looked at the race. I had misremembered the last fraction-- I remembered the 1:35 to 2:02 but Holy Bull's last fraction was only 26 flat as you state.

It's still painfully slow (by comparison, Cupid, nobody's idea of a great horse, ran 25 2/5 on Saturday, and Follow Me Crev, a plodder, ran 24 3/5), but it's not as slow as I remembered it.

Comparing raw fractions at Saratoga to those at Santa Anita isn't exactly apples to apples, and neither is comparing an August 3yo to an older horse.