World Series of Handicapping Format. - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

Bobzilla · 01-04-2009, 06:54 AM

Can anybody tell me what the format is for the annual World Series of Handicapping at the Orleans? I know the DRF/NTRA NHC involves two days of mythical $2 WP bets with 7 mandatory races and 8 optional races each day. Last year the NHC picks were chosen from Aqueduct, Gulfstream, Fair Grounds, Tampa Bay, Oaklawn, Santa Anita and Golden Gate Fields. Is the WSH similar to this and if not, how is it different? Also, how many positions do they pay out for and what are the cash rewards?

boomman · 01-04-2009, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobzilla

Can anybody tell me what the format is for the annual World Series of Handicapping at the Orleans? I know the DRF/NTRA NHC involves two days of mythical $2 WP bets with 7 mandatory races and 8 optional races each day. Last year the NHC picks were chosen from Aqueduct, Gulfstream, Fair Grounds, Tampa Bay, Oaklawn, Santa Anita and Golden Gate Fields. Is the WSH similar to this and if not, how is it different? Also, how many positions do they pay out for and what are the cash rewards?

Bob: Looking at a flyer I received from them in the mail yesterday (as I host one of their qualifying tournaments each summer at Yavapai). The format is full track odds paid up to 19x1 for win and 9x1 for place, so maximum mutuel paid on any one horse for tournament purposes will be $40 win and $20 to place. Only $20 mythical win and place wagering, no show wagering. Each day (3 days) will require 11 $20 win and place wagers being made, and more than one horse per race can be used. Point totals accumulate for 3 days. Here's the prize pool based on 750 entrants: (which I believe they have reached this number of entries over the past few years, I know when I went a couple of years back they had 836)

1st Place: $337,500
2nd Place $60,000
3rd Place $52,500
4th Place: $37,500
5th Place: $22,500
6th through 10th Place: $7500 each
11th through 20th Place: $3750 each
21st through 30th: $1,875 each
31st through 80th: $1,125 each

$90,000 in Daily Prizes will also be awarded.

We as players were asked our opinion on format and pay-out a few years ago and they have gone from win only wagering to win and place and are now paying 80 spots instead of 36 which was ridiculous given that many entries. IMHO the tournament is still top heavy, reduce the top prize to $250,000 (which is still a nice payday) and raise the bottom level pay-offs which will help defer more expense of going there. I believe that the more players that cash the better the tournament becomes............

Boomer

Bobzilla · 01-04-2009, 05:55 PM

Boomer, thanks for all the information. Everything I wanted to know you provided. With 33 $20 WP picks I would guess $2500 to $3000 to be the target range for an in the money showing. I agree that the distribution of winnings seems top heavy and I for one certainly would not be disapointed with 250,000 if I were to win something like this. Finishing in the top 10% deserves something better than only recovering the cost of entering given the other costs associated with participation. Thanks again.

Bob

boomman · 01-04-2009, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobzilla

Boomer, thanks for all the information. Everything I wanted to know you provided. With 33 $20 WP picks I would guess $2500 to $3000 to be the target range for an in the money showing. I agree that the distribution of winnings seems top heavy and I for one certainly would not be disapointed with 250,000 if I were to win something like this. Finishing in the top 10% deserves something better than only recovering the cost of entering given the other costs associated with participation. Thanks again.

Bob

Bob: My pleasure, and your target seems reasonable, (although I played when it was win wagering only so not entirely sure), but just keep a close eye on the leader board and that should give you a good idea soon enough of a solid "target number" to work towards. As for the prize money, Randi Muniz and Linda Ferris run the tournament, and be sure and let them know your thoughts on the pay-off return and any other concerns you have, because they DO listen to their players and your opinions will be heard...............

Boomer

JimG · 01-04-2009, 08:16 PM

A couple of things must have changed since I played in the tournament. As I recall, the first $2 of the win and place bet are paid at full track odds and the cap is applied to the remainder of the $20win and place bet.

Also, the leader board was not updated very often so really did not know where you stood. Since there are no mandatory races, you really have to shoot for long shots there.

On the positive side, the staff is very nice and experienced at running a contest. Randi Muniz and Linda Ferris are top notch.

Jim

boomman · 01-04-2009, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimG

A couple of things must have changed since I played in the tournament. As I recall, the first $2 of the win and place bet are paid at full track odds and the cap is applied to the remainder of the $20win and place bet.

Also, the leader board was not updated very often so really did not know where you stood. Since there are no mandatory races, you really have to shoot for long shots there.

On the positive side, the staff is very nice and experienced at running a contest. Randi Muniz and Linda Ferris are top notch.

Jim

Jim: You are absolutely right! The 1st $2 of each wager does receive full track odds, it's the remainder that has the cap. As for the leader board, it is difficult to keep it updated with so many players playing so many different races, but I thought they kept it updated enough (and the effort was certainly there) that you could get an idea of where you were at..............

Boomer

Light · 01-09-2009, 12:36 PM

Does anyone know if it is televised either live or on tape?

JimG · 01-09-2009, 01:46 PM

No, it has not been for the last few years. The NHC tournament gets more press and is usually carried by TVG since ESPN no longer carries it. TVG at least interviews the winner and provides updates throughout the day.

Overall, I do not think tv execs found watching people root for horses very interesting and when ESPN did televise it, there were contestants in the hunt that practically refused to appear or talk on camera.

Jim

Jay Trotter · 10-10-2011, 03:38 PM

Tough to find much info on the World Series.

From what I could piece together....

659 Entrants in 2011
Top Prize $296,550
Format: 3 days -- 15 plays per day -- $20 Win/Place wagers
Full Track Odds on first $2.00 Win/Place
Capped at 19/1 and 9/1 Win/Place for balance

Can anyone confirm this info or correct me. Also, any info on seating, use of computers, etc. would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Trotter

Bill Cullen · 10-18-2011, 11:23 PM

I can confirm for 2010, when I was there, that it was 15 races a day for three days. Your other info looks similar if not the same as it was when I was there.

Best,

Bill C

Charli125 · 11-21-2011, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Cullen

I can confirm for 2010, when I was there, that it was 15 races a day for three days. Your other info looks similar if not the same as it was when I was there.

Best,

Bill C

I qualified on Saturday and this will be my first trip to the HPWS, 2nd to the NHC. Is it true that you can spread your $20 out over several horses? Having the first $2 uncapped is an interesting aspect which could make you look at some longer odds horses, so I like that one. I've never played in a WP contest where you can spread over several horses though, so I'm wondering if anyone can confirm that.

Anyone else who's been before, I'd appreciate any input. Things like, are laptops allowed, is there wifi, is the tournament held in the sportsbook, etc.

Also, any other PA members that will be there, we should meet up and say hello.

Jay Trotter · 11-21-2011, 05:32 PM

Charli,

KidCapper messaged me a little info about the contest:

* The tournament is held in the ballrooms on the 2nd floor of the Orleans

* If I recall correctly about $1000 a day gets you right up there with the leaders

* It's a ballroom setting with Tv's on all the wall's

* There is a huge video screen in the middle that shows the next race

* We always tried to get there early to get good seats

*They give you a piece of paper to put on your chair to reserve your seat

Hope to see you there!

Charli125 · 11-21-2011, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Trotter

Charli,

KidCapper messaged me a little info about the contest:

* The tournament is held in the ballrooms on the 2nd floor of the Orleans

* If I recall correctly about $1000 a day gets you right up there with the leaders

* It's a ballroom setting with Tv's on all the wall's

* There is a huge video screen in the middle that shows the next race

* We always tried to get there early to get good seats

*They give you a piece of paper to put on your chair to reserve your seat

Hope to see you there!

Thanks Jay, that's great info. I'll definitely see you there. I did a little more sleuthing and the Twinspires blog had video from last year which also gave me a bit of a feel for it.

Personally, I'm going to focus on the NHC until it's over, take a week off, then focus on the HPWS.

horses4courses · 11-21-2011, 07:17 PM

Great job, Charli!
Hit it big in LV......

Best of luck to you and all other PA members in those tourneys!

Donnie · 11-21-2011, 09:52 PM

Charli-- Congrats!! While I did not play in the Sat TS contest, I did qualify the following day, Sunday, at HPQualify.com, so I will be returning to the WS again this year.

Regarding some of your questions:

Yes, no problem with laptops. You'll want to get there early and let them know you will need electricity to your table. They are top notch and have always accomodated us.

Although you can play more than one horse in any given race, you cannot "spread" your $20 across multiple horses. You can make multiple $20 bets within one race, but I would challenge that strategy.

There is no wifi in the ballroom, at least not free wifi. Many laptop players have already switched to a data card to get around that issue.

As already confirmed by Bill, 15 races each for 3 days. Total of 45 races. No mandatories. Usually 5-8 tracks per day.

Another reason to get there early is to reserve your seat if you want to be able to see the monitors. Personally, I carry a small pair of binoculars with me.

Each day they serve an excellent buffet. If you go home hungry it's your own fault.

Racing Forms are available each day; actually the night before. Live betting windows are available right in the ballrooms. Drink tickets are usually issued at all the Coast Casino tournaments, and they always have servers passing by to get you drinks/refreshments.

They also have a free tournament on Sunday called Beat The Champs. Usually 5 races, if I remember. You submit your slip before the first race is run, but you can win up to I think $5000 if you win it. A lot of people schedule their flight out of Vegas first thing Sunday morning and miss this.

Good luck! Maybe we'll run into each other there!!

-Donnie