The Death Knell Has Likely Sounded for America

[Tom]

The only living part of the constitution we need is the amendment process.
Which the libs never try out because they KNOW they do not represent the majority on any issues, in spite of the pretty graphs hcap posts. If the left had all the popular support they claim to have, why are they all afraid to use the legal process?

[PaceAdvantage]

It's easier to assassinate via mischaracterization.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Originally Posted by Clocker

That's why we don't want a "living constitution", with 5 people making the laws for the country. We have managed to endure hundreds of years making do with the words of some old dead white guys. Somehow we managed to deal with TV and the internet under freedom of speech principles written in a time of pen and ink, and movable type printing. The rest of the Constitution works just fine too, if everybody just does their job.

I'd only point out that 5 people have been interpreting the constitution since the court first convened, and some of their decisions have been doozies. A living constitution is not a euphemism for an ignorable or totally malleable constitution. It is a recognition of what Jefferson noted (below). The arguments on either side are intellectually honest, and frankly I think we should consider amendment more often to account for the advancement of society, although I'm not sure Jefferson was right when he suggested the amendment was not so difficult.

"I am certainly not an advocate for frequent and untried changes in laws and constitutions. I think moderate imperfections had better be borne with; because, when once known, we accommodate ourselves to them, and find practical means of correcting their ill effects. But I know also, that laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths disclosed, and manners and opinions change with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also, and keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy, as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors...[it] will be said it is easier to find faults than to amend [the Constitution]. I do not think...amendment so difficult as is pretended. Only lay down true principles, and adhere to them inflexibly."

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Originally Posted by Tom

The only living part of the constitution we need is the amendment process.
Which the libs never try out because they KNOW they do not represent the majority on any issues, in spite of the pretty graphs hcap posts. If the left had all the popular support they claim to have, why are they all afraid to use the legal process?

Think of a potential amendment, either side, that would get two thirds of both houses and 3/4 of the states. Wouldn't it be just as correct to say, if the right had all the popular support they claim to have we'd have seen their version of constitutional amendments on marriage, abortion, and immigration? Especially considering the court seems to believe the constitution protects gay marriage and abortion. The point is that nobody is getting an amendment through on any controversial issue because nobody has supermajorities. In the meantime, the court continues to rule on cases the liberal hate (Citizens United) and cases the conservatives hate (Obamacare).

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Oh...you just have no idea how relieved I am, sir -- to see that your kindliness more truly had it's roots in your basic instinct of self-preservation. Smart move...

I'd be willing to let the PA members set an odds line on who would be the favorite in a real intellectual discussion. In fact, I'd be fine letting the odds line be the final word just to save everyone the pain of reading your aggravating screeds.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing

Think of a potential amendment, either side, that would get two thirds of both houses and 3/4 of the states.

Not likely today. Is that the fault of the Constitution, or of the founders, or of the political cesspool that this country has devolved into? The legislature doesn't do its job, the people don't hold them to it, and the executive and judiciary step in to usurp all the power they can.

The people in a democracy get the government that they deserve. And it is getting ugly.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Originally Posted by Clocker

Not likely today. Is that the fault of the Constitution, or of the founders, or of the political cesspool that this country has devolved into? The legislature doesn't do its job, the people don't hold them to it, and the executive and judiciary step in to usurp all the power they can.

The people in a democracy get the government that they deserve. And it is getting ugly.

Now on those points we are in agreement.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing

I'd be willing to let the PA members set an odds line on who would be the favorite in a real intellectual discussion. In fact, I'd be fine letting the odds line be the final word just to save everyone the pain of reading your aggravating screeds.

And I'd be praying that they make you the odds-on fave 'cause nothing would motivate me more than an underestimated underdog.

And by the way, you know for someone who prides himself as some intellectual giant who can save people from pain, I must wonder how it is that you haven't figured out there are two very easy ways for you or anyone else to extricate yourselves from the "pain of reading" my "aggravating screeds": Plan A: Put me on Iggy; or Plan B: Just discipline yourself to scroll past my posts. Of course, I realize that either of these no-brainer solutions would rob you of the glory and bragging rights of being mankind's savior. But if you had need to placate yourself of your horrible loss of opportunity to wax smart and courageous, you could always take up thumb sucking to sooth your own hurt.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Of course, I realize that either of these no-brainer solutions would rob you of the glory and bragging rights of being mankind's savior. But if you had need to placate yourself of your horrible loss of opportunity to wax smart and courageous, you could always take up thumb sucking to sooth your own hurt.

...seems like there's a saying about "glass houses" that applies here

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

...seems like there's a saying about "glass houses" that applies here

I'm just a messenger, not the Savior. There's really a difference.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by boxcar

I'm just a messenger, not the Savior. There's really a difference.

Humility, a nice change Box.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

Humility, a nice change Box.

But just remember if you're ever in need of worldly savior, turn to HOH who will save you from pain and aggravation -- all caused by me, of course.