State of the Industry

[Jeff P]

Unless you've been living under a rock (and recently that HAS described me to some extent) as a horseplayer you can't help but notice that the game we love has recently detiorated into a very sorry state.

As if things weren't bad enough and the industry fragmented enough with track owners withholding distribution of signals from ADWs, now horseman's groups have jumped into the thick of things.

Currently, to my knowledge, the following signals are being withheld... not just from some ADWs... but from full card simulcasting at some race tracks as well: BEL, CD, LS, and CRC. Those are the signals I am aware of. I'm guessing that may not be a complete list.

To put things bluntly: Things are so messed up right now that TwinSpires.com can't even offer account wagering on their own CD signal.

At first I was all for the horsemen sticking it to TrackNet... giving them a taste of their own medicine so to speak. But the more I think about it, the more I have come to believe that the horseman is no more friend of the player than the track executive.

Both seem to have forgetten the person who plays the most important role in this (or any other) industry's business model:

THE CUSTOMER

I'm beginning to think it's long past time for horse players to self organize in a serious way. I reached the conclusion a long time ago that the ONLY thing track executives and horsemen's groups should REALLY be focused on is doing what's right for the industry:

REMOVING ALL RESTRICTIONS ON DISTRIBUTION OF SIGNALS, REDUCING TAKEOUT, and GROWING HANDLE

I've come to believe that the only way to get them to do this is to hit them over the head with the only stick that we as horse players carry:

Organize on a national level and have repeated boycotts at selected tracks until they recognize the CUSTOMER actually has a stake in things.

Can anybody else besides me imagine a day when a major track has ZERO handle?

I think it's long past time for that to happen. Because if WE don't make it happen and get them to change things - I fear the day will come all too soon when it just happens on its own... when the next generation comes along... when the population of the US is 600 million... and maybe 12 individuals out of that 600 million actually have an interest in learning how to read a Racing Form.


-jp

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[trigger]

IMHO, Nothing is going to happen in permanently reducing takeout until 30 or 40 of the minor NA tracks go out of business.....it's not economically feasible to reduce takeout now with the current plethora of tracks. So, if (organized) bettors are really serious about reducing takeout, boycotts should be aimed at minor tracks first, then force the remaining tracks to reduce takeout (which they would then be able to do economically).

[DJofSD]

I agree. We need to do something.

Withholding wagers on a specific day and track seems to be the only thing left to do.

[Lasix67]

I totally agree with Jeff on this stance, but unfortunately it is going to be literally impossible to do. I am very disappointed that the CD undercard has been held hostage for both the Oaks and Derby day as it is the day that I and many more have their annual parties and how do you tell your guess the current circumstance has all but locked us out. This is really bad for the persons who could with one spectacular day, become life long fans because of the joy that Derby day has brought to them. Instead they will go to the festivals and other activities for which they can be involved in. This is also a bad year considering the field just doesn't glow with a fan champion as in years past, regardless of how much the media is building up Big Brown. What a damn shame for the fans new and old and a sad day for our sport for which many of us have a deep love and passion for.

[JustRalph]

Jeff, you are right.


We need a horseplayers advocacy group. I hate the "union" label

but there has to be something done.


I would pay a fair fee to organize. And I think that means horseplayers doing it.........not the NTRA.

[Indulto]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

Jeff, you are right.


We need a horseplayers advocacy group. I hate the "union" label

but there has to be something done.


I would pay a fair fee to organize. And I think that means horseplayers doing it.........not the NTRA.

Amen.

Now exactly what is the single most important objective: Lower actual takeout, lower effective takeout for all, unlimited signal distribution to all ADWs, unlimited signal distribution to all simulcast centers, etc.

What is the next single most important objective?

And so on.

[Tom]

The only effective action will be to walk away - and not come back.
the people that run racing are just too utterly stupid and greedy to treat as inteligent forms of life. Most are leeches, sucking life out the game and returning nothing. When they kill this goose, they will have thier uncles get them jobs in other industrues to destroy.

Racing is dead or dying fast.
I can never see myself upping my action to any worthwhile level ever again.
I have had it with racing. At best, you get the "privalege" of betting some track, and then the trainers are stinking drugging cheaters. Screw racing and everyone in it.

[Cangamble]

Originally Posted by Indulto

Amen.

Now exactly what is the single most important objective: Lower actual takeout, lower effective takeout for all, unlimited signal distribution to all ADWs, unlimited signal distribution to all simulcast centers, etc.

What is the next single most important objective?

And so on.

I think that drastically lowering takeout for all is the only way to grow horse racing.
The rest will sort itself out after the foundation is in place.
Gambling is growing worldwide....sports betting and online poker especially....two non negative expectation games (because you are betting against the public and not the house, but you still have to overcome the house rake or edge). Horse racing exchange betting is also growing....again, because it isn't a negative expectation game thanks to the minute 2% rake.

[highnote]

Maybe potential members of a National Handicapping Organization can meet informally at the cocktail hour of the First Annual Offical Handicapping Hall of Fame Induction Ceremony that should be held this summer at Saratoga during the annual PA handicapping get-together.

[trying2win]

Jeff, you're right on the money! So is Cangamble on his many posts about track takeouts, in this thread and others. For those bettors that say lowering takeouts can't be done, or it'll never work....I say...NONSENSE! I''d like to know where they learned their theories about economics???


T2W

[highnote]

Originally Posted by trying2win

For those bettors that say lowering takeouts can't be done, or it'll never work....I say...NONSENSE! I''d like to know where they learned their theories about economics???

Hialeah?

[Kelso]

Originally Posted by swetyejohn

Maybe potential members of a National Handicapping Organization can meet informally at the cocktail hour of the First Annual Offical Handicapping Hall of Fame Induction Ceremony that should be held this summer at Saratoga during the annual PA handicapping get-together.

Now THAT would make one swell opening paragraph when someone writes the 50th anniversayr history of the NHO.

[cj]

This article doesn't deal with the current fights, but sums up the state of the game pretty well:

http://www.slate.com/id/2189475/pagenum/all/#page_start

[Cangamble]

Originally Posted by cj

This article doesn't deal with the current fights, but sums up the state of the game pretty well:

http://www.slate.com/id/2189475/pagenum/all/#page_start

That is the way it is. And what have race tracks done to go with the flow?
Nothing.

[sjk]

Getting back to the state of the industry it seems to me to be bad and I am not sure I see any way out.

The economics of the horsemen and the tracks is extremely poor so anyone who thinks that things will settle out where their share of the takeout is less than today is likely to suffer eternel disappointment.

The fact that the horsemen economics is bad and getting worse is forcing them to try to make a stand to tear up the rules and try something new.

Some here have suggested that it would be nice if a number of tracks closed putting tens or hundreds of thousands of people out of work and destroying the local aspect of the sport in areas where it has a long tradition. I have a hard time embracing this as a positive outcome and I am not even sure that I agree that handle would not go down commensurately.

The large volume of play that is coming from rebated players has made the effective takeout on the casual player so onerous that we have probably lost an entire generation of potential participants.

It has also tended to make the pools more efficient. Along with the huge number of short fields the more efficient pools demand more time and patience to make value based bets.

When some tracks are not available to play through our ADWs and the tracks that are available demand more time and patience I find myself playing fewer races than in the past and I gather from other posts that I am not alone in that.

The fact that even after years of discussion a very large percentage of the pools comes in in the last minute before the race goes off continues to work against playing the smaller tracks because it doesn't take long for a horse you bet at 9-2 at 0 mtp to win and pay $5.60 and that is usually enough for me to write off Prm for the year.

I don't really see any answer. The industry had a wonderful opportunity to take advantage of simulcasting and internet play 15 years ago. I agree with the horsemen that it made a wrong turn at that time. It is not at all clear to me that there is any way back or any way out.

This is a billion dollar industry and what a handful of us on a message board think (or indeed whether we participate in the sport or not) will have little or nothing to do with how this plays out.