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01-17-2024, 01:32 AM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: LNN
Posts: 524
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WOX to GPX shippers
Anyone have info they wanna share. Seems fairly regular you get a Woodbine shipper in the Gulfstream Tapeta fields.
Form, figures, running styles transferring true? or upgrades/downgrades to certain metrics?
__________________
They didn't take your money...You paid for lessons
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01-17-2024, 01:27 PM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deelo
Anyone have info they wanna share. Seems fairly regular you get a Woodbine shipper in the Gulfstream Tapeta fields.
Form, figures, running styles transferring true? or upgrades/downgrades to certain metrics?
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Don't bother....
For Year 2023 , there were 193 shippers from WO to GP
17 won at around .62 ROI (1.00 being even )
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01-17-2024, 01:32 PM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 507
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Very few tracks ship to GP and does well...
I use to love GP till the tapeta came on
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1.JPG (143.6 KB, 37 views) |
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01-17-2024, 04:59 PM
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Clarksville, AR
Posts: 1,222
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This might be helpful:
The last 3 years (since GP has had the Tapeta), horses that last raced on the Woodbine Tapeta with a "good" finish (4th or better) won 20% of their starts on the Gulfstream Tapeta (44% ITM). 86 total starts. The ROI was a positive 2% - but skewed by at 35-1 winner.
I'd more or less take that as WO Tapeta form holding up on the GP Tapeta.
__________________
Tom in NW Arkansas
Past performances are no guarantee of future results. - Why isn't this disclaimer printed in the Daily Racing Form?
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01-18-2024, 07:54 AM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarchCapper
This might be helpful:
The last 3 years (since GP has had the Tapeta), horses that last raced on the Woodbine Tapeta with a "good" finish (4th or better) won 20% of their starts on the Gulfstream Tapeta (44% ITM). 86 total starts. The ROI was a positive 2% - but skewed by at 35-1 winner.
I'd more or less take that as WO Tapeta form holding up on the GP Tapeta.
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Thx Barch for this post made me realize I slipped up on my query...
I believe this is correct....
Picture 1 is Wo horses finishing 4th or better coming to GP Tapeta (that is what I left out Tapeta criteria)
there were 99 horses from 1/2021 to yesterday that came from WO to GP Tapeta
17 won (17%) at a .89 ROI
Take out that $73 winner and ROI falls to .53
In those 3 years there were only 3 double digit winners ( 10 - 14 - 73)
So , I have to disagree with you that WO holds up at GP
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1.JPG (170.5 KB, 7 views) |
Last edited by Saratoga; 01-18-2024 at 07:56 AM.
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01-18-2024, 11:03 AM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Clarksville, AR
Posts: 1,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saratoga
Thx Barch for this post made me realize I slipped up on my query...
I believe this is correct....
Picture 1 is Wo horses finishing 4th or better coming to GP Tapeta (that is what I left out Tapeta criteria)
there were 99 horses from 1/2021 to yesterday that came from WO to GP Tapeta
17 won (17%) at a .89 ROI
Take out that $73 winner and ROI falls to .53
In those 3 years there were only 3 double digit winners ( 10 - 14 - 73)
So , I have to disagree with you that WO holds up at GP
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I'd be surprised that my 3 year numbers were that different for starters. Did you do WO Tapeta to GP Tapeta, or did the WO include turf runners in their last start? I did Tapeta to Tapeta. (And I *think* I had 17 winners in that sample.)
__________________
Tom in NW Arkansas
Past performances are no guarantee of future results. - Why isn't this disclaimer printed in the Daily Racing Form?
Last edited by BarchCapper; 01-18-2024 at 11:05 AM.
Reason: Clarification
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01-18-2024, 01:11 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarchCapper
I'd be surprised that my 3 year numbers were that different for starters. Did you do WO Tapeta to GP Tapeta, or did the WO include turf runners in their last start? I did Tapeta to Tapeta. (And I *think* I had 17 winners in that sample.)
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your correct again...I used Turf races....
this might be a little better...
Getting a 1.78 ROI for the 3+ years
take away that $73....its at 1.31
thinks I have it now
and it does look good..but still off from yours
Code:
2 2 $13.20 100.00 3.30 $6.60 3.00 08-Dec-21 GP 6 WO 4 $8.60
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 10-Dec-21 GP 5 WO 4 $0.00
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 24-Dec-21 GP 6 WO 4 $0.00
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 30-Dec-21 GP 6 WO 4 $0.00
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 31-Dec-21 GP 6 WO 4 $0.00
2 1 $9.80 50.00 2.45 $9.80 2.85 01-Jan-22 GP 6 WO 4 $9.80
1 1 $5.60 100.00 2.80 $5.60 2.80 02-Jan-22 GP 6 WO 4 $5.60
2 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 06-Jan-22 GP 5 WO 4 $0.00
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 07-Jan-22 GP 5 WO 4 $0.00
1 1 $4.60 100.00 2.30 $4.60 2.30 07-Jan-22 GP 6 WO 4 $4.60
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 09-Jan-22 GP 5 WO 4 $0.00
2 1 $11.20 50.00 2.80 $11.20 2.80 13-Jan-22 GP 6 WO 4 $11.20
1 1 $24.60 100.00 12.30 $24.60 12.30 15-Jan-22 GP 6 WO 4 $24.60
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 16-Jan-22 GP 5 WO 4 $0.00
1 1 $4.80 100.00 2.40 $4.80 2.40 19-Jan-22 GP 5 WO 4 $4.80
2 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 19-Jan-22 GP 6 WO 4 $0.00
1 1 $4.60 100.00 2.30 $4.60 2.30 20-Jan-22 GP 5 WO 4 $4.60
1 1 $6.40 100.00 3.20 $6.40 3.20 21-Jan-22 GP 5 WO 4 $6.40
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 22-Jan-22 GP 6 WO 4 $0.00
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 26-Jan-22 GP 6 WO 4 $0.00
1 1 $7.00 100.00 3.50 $7.00 3.50 28-Jan-22 GP 5 WO 4 $7.00
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 29-Jan-22 GP 6 WO 4 $0.00
2 1 $10.60 50.00 2.65 $10.60 3.82 05-Feb-22 GP 6 WO 4 $10.60
1 1 $6.60 100.00 3.30 $6.60 3.30 10-Feb-22 GP 6 WO 4 $6.60
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 13-Feb-22 GP 6 WO 4 $0.00
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 17-Feb-22 GP 5 WO 4 $0.00
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 20-Feb-22 GP 6 WO 4 $0.00
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 06-Mar-22 GP 5 WO 4 $0.00
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 10-Mar-22 GP 5 WO 4 $0.00
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 12-Mar-22 GP 5 WO 4 $0.00
1 1 $20.60 100.00 10.30 $20.60 10.30 24-Mar-22 GP 5 WO 4 $20.60
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 02-Apr-22 GP 6 WO 4 $0.00
1 1 $5.40 100.00 2.70 $5.40 2.70 14-Apr-22 GP 6 WO 4 $5.40
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 11-Sep-22 GP 5 WO 4 $0.00
1 1 $73.00 100.00 36.50 $73.00 36.50 01-Dec-22 GP 6 WO 4 $73.00
1 1 $6.00 100.00 3.00 $6.00 3.00 04-Jan-23 GP 5 WO 4 $6.00
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 05-Jan-23 GP 6 WO 4 $0.00
1 1 $3.20 100.00 1.60 $3.20 1.60 07-Jan-23 GP 6 WO 4 $3.20
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 12-Jan-23 GP 6 WO 4 $0.00
2 1 $8.00 50.00 2.00 $8.00 2.00 13-Jan-23 GP 5 WO 4 $8.00
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 19-Jan-23 GP 5 WO 4 $0.00
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 19-Jan-23 GP 6 WO 4 $0.00
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 21-Jan-23 GP 5 WO 4 $0.00
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 29-Jan-23 GP 6 WO 4 $0.00
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 04-Feb-23 GP 6 WO 4 $0.00
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 11-Feb-23 GP 6 WO 4 $0.00
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 12-Feb-23 GP 6 WO 4 $0.00
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 16-Feb-23 GP 5 WO 4 $0.00
1 1 $14.40 100.00 7.20 $14.40 7.20 01-Mar-23 GP 5 WO 4 $14.40
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 02-Mar-23 GP 5 WO 4 $0.00
2 1 $3.80 50.00 0.95 $3.80 1.38 11-Mar-23 GP 5 WO 4 $3.80
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 12-Mar-23 GP 5 WO 4 $0.00
1 1 $3.80 100.00 1.90 $3.80 1.90 31-Mar-23 GP 5 WO 4 $3.80
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 15-Apr-23 GP 6 WO 4 $0.00
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 24-Sep-23 GP 5 WO 4 $0.00
1 1 $5.00 100.00 2.50 $5.00 2.50 30-Sep-23 GP 5 WO 4 $5.00
1 1 $5.80 100.00 2.90 $5.80 2.90 03-Dec-23 GP 6 WO 4 $5.80
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 10-Dec-23 GP 5 WO 4 $0.00
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 17-Dec-23 GP 5 WO 4 $0.00
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 28-Dec-23 GP 6 WO 4 $0.00
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 30-Dec-23 GP 6 WO 4 $0.00
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 01-Jan-24 GP 5 WO 4 $0.00
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 07-Jan-24 GP 5 WO 4 $0.00
1 1 $6.20 100.00 3.10 $6.20 3.10 12-Jan-24 GP 6 WO 4 $6.20
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 14-Jan-24 GP 5 WO 4 $0.00
1 0 $0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 14-Jan-24 GP 6 WO 4 $0.00
74 25 $264.20
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01-23-2024, 07:30 PM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 319
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In terms of ROI
They struggle at times when they ship down but the key guys are obviously Casse but pay attention to M. Drexler or William Tharrenos.. Drexler barn growing rapidly.. to be a big player at Woodbine as well as Tharrenos who presence at GP the last 3 years. They get bet down big time once they ship back up here because of the tapeta presence and to keep horses ready. Drexler horses tend to be of the higher class as Tharrenos has cheaper claiming horses. Not sure that helps but Roger Attfield usually ships in for some of the top notch grass races and Josie Carrol.
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01-23-2024, 08:06 PM
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#9
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clean money
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiretowire68
They struggle at times when they ship down but the key guys are obviously Casse but pay attention to M. Drexler or William Tharrenos.. Drexler barn growing rapidly.. to be a big player at Woodbine as well as Tharrenos who presence at GP the last 3 years. They get bet down big time once they ship back up here because of the tapeta presence and to keep horses ready. Drexler horses tend to be of the higher class as Tharrenos has cheaper claiming horses. Not sure that helps but Roger Attfield usually ships in for some of the top notch grass races and Josie Carrol.
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Tommorow r9  Swath is solid. I don't like his post.
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Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.
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01-23-2024, 08:11 PM
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarchCapper
This might be helpful:
The last 3 years (since GP has had the Tapeta), horses that last raced on the Woodbine Tapeta with a "good" finish (4th or better) won 20% of their starts on the Gulfstream Tapeta (44% ITM). 86 total starts. The ROI was a positive 2% - but skewed by at 35-1 winner.
I'd more or less take that as WO Tapeta form holding up on the GP Tapeta.
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Hi ,Tom. Hope all is well, my friend. Because it's been a minute, I'm working right now to compile an updated profile for the mountain-main that runs an inclusive gamut of distances, track condition, winning posts, odds and running style...
I'm also considering a (separate) d-base (too sophisticated a term for my obtuse torturing of simple excel spreadsheets) predicated on "shippers" (in and of itself a tricky term) categorizing by trainer and track of origin. Some of this info is available via formulator and most of the rest through the Incompass system we use as racing officials, but I will have use for the sort of self-styled spreadsheet I have in mind should I accept the racing secretary job in 2025.
I'm curious, sir, how extensive and encompassing is your own material?
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01-23-2024, 10:14 PM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Clarksville, AR
Posts: 1,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainman
I'm curious, sir, how extensive and encompassing is your own material?
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Hi Mark -
That sounds like a good project!
I make use of the RaceLens product from Equibase and construct queries of conditions under what they call "angles". The database query goes back 5 years (although with anything jockey-related it's only a year), and you can limit it to shorter periods. (I'm typically taking my Turfway queries only back to the Tapeta installation, for example.)
On the home front, Daina's almost back in tip-top shape after that 3rd 2023 knee replacement on Dec 21st. Hope all is well with you and yours.
All the best,
Tom
__________________
Tom in NW Arkansas
Past performances are no guarantee of future results. - Why isn't this disclaimer printed in the Daily Racing Form?
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01-23-2024, 11:37 PM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarchCapper
Hi Mark -
That sounds like a good project!
I make use of the RaceLens product from Equibase and construct queries of conditions under what they call "angles". The database query goes back 5 years (although with anything jockey-related it's only a year), and you can limit it to shorter periods. (I'm typically taking my Turfway queries only back to the Tapeta installation, for example.)
On the home front, Daina's almost back in tip-top shape after that 3rd 2023 knee replacement on Dec 21st. Hope all is well with you and yours.
All the best,
Tom
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Very glad Daina is good. Makes my day. And I’ve had several ruff days recently. Extremely painful and infected cysts precipitated by underarm friction in the gym. Either I’m too old now to be a tuff guy, or this problem brings epic pain. Just my shirt brushing against my rib cage nearly knocks me off my feet.
Last edited by mountainman; 01-23-2024 at 11:45 PM.
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01-24-2024, 07:57 AM
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarchCapper
I make use of the RaceLens product from Equibase and construct queries of conditions under what they call "angles". The database query goes back 5 years (although with anything jockey-related it's only a year), and you can limit it to shorter periods.
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Be careful of RaceLens....
I get their newsletter almost every weekend with 4 selections...
If they give more than a hand full of winners in a year , thats a lot...
They don't have no substance in what they throw out to you....
For example....
They tell you that blah blah has a 5 year roi in this type situation....
When I researched it.....year one and 2 did have good years but last 3 were
terrible...would I bet that ?...No way!!
I can give you more detail when this weeks comes out ..If you want
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01-24-2024, 09:57 AM
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#14
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clean money
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainman
Very glad Daina is good. Makes my day. And Ive had several ruff days recently. Extremely painful and infected cysts precipitated by underarm friction in the gym. Either Im too old now to be a tuff guy, or this problem brings epic pain. Just my shirt brushing against my rib cage nearly knocks me off my feet.
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check your private messages Mark.
__________________
Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.
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01-24-2024, 04:49 PM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Clarksville, AR
Posts: 1,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saratoga
Be careful of RaceLens....
I get their newsletter almost every weekend with 4 selections...
If they give more than a hand full of winners in a year , thats a lot...
They don't have no substance in what they throw out to you....
For example....
They tell you that blah blah has a 5 year roi in this type situation....
When I researched it.....year one and 2 did have good years but last 3 were
terrible...would I bet that ?...No way!!
I can give you more detail when this weeks comes out ..If you want
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I have an unlimited annual subscription to the RaceLens product - though I don't get any newsletter. I find it to be the most cost-effective means (for me) to have access to PPs/data for every race in North America.
I'm building my own queries and searching - so they're not throwing anything out to me. And they allow you to take your query result and slice it down to samples anywhere in that 1-5 year range (or even down to months) - which I often do for just the reasons you mention.
There's a LOT of substance in RaceLens - but it's best to do the "sculpting" yourself.
__________________
Tom in NW Arkansas
Past performances are no guarantee of future results. - Why isn't this disclaimer printed in the Daily Racing Form?
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