DACA

[delayjf]

How hard can this be? Give the current Dreamers a path to be Americans, and then shut that crap down.

If you want to let them stay for humanitarian reasons fine, but that would not require that they be allowed to become citizens.

Now, if a company like that wants hire 15-20 new programmers, they would outsource the work or import them.

How exactly is that good for the US worker?

That's how the immigration argument needs to be framed - as a war against Americans.

[DSB]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I think it's very likely the workers that are already here going to be able to stay. Some work in high tech jobs for companies like Google. Facebook, Microsoft, and Apple.

The issue to me is whether these companies should be allowed to continue importing foreign workers in an effort to keep wages down or whether they should be forced to train and retrain Americans to do these jobs.

I got into the data processing field in 1980.

My first job was for Equitable Life Insurance company. I didn't take any programming or data processing classes in college. I got the job by taking an aptitude test and scoring well on it. They hired me, gave me a 6 week class, and brought me along slowly. Suddenly I had a career. They did the same thing for dozens of other people with no data processing background for years and years.

Now, if a company like that wants hire 15-20 new programmers, they would outsource the work or import them.

How exactly is that good for the US worker?

It's good for the shareholders of these companies that then look to avoid paying taxes on top of it.

I'd like to see a complete end to this illegal program so that there is one less "magnet" for illegals. How we deal with those already here is just one more little mess the Marxist in chief left us to deal with.

With regard to corporate taxes, I don't think we should automatically drop the corporate rate to 15% and pray that companies invest in America and American workers. I'd like to see the reduction come in the form of credits for action. For example, if a company trains and hires Americans, they get a tax break. If they build factories or set up businesses in America, they get a tax break.

Just handing them a big decrease in taxes guarantees nothing. For all we know, the extra cash could go for fat cat bonuses and dividends for shareholders. Then, they can continue to outsource and import cheap foreign labor - business as usual.

I'd like to prevent that, if possible.

[chadk66]

I don't understand how anybody could possibly believe they could determine who would meet the DACA requirements. I'm sure the lefties realize there is no way so they think they will just have to allow anybody that claims to meet the requirements to stay.

[kingfin66]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I think it's very likely the workers that are already here going to be able to stay. Some work in high tech jobs for companies like Google. Facebook, Microsoft, and Apple.

The issue to me is whether these companies should be allowed to continue importing foreign workers in an effort to keep wages down or whether they should be forced to train and retrain Americans to do these jobs.

I got into the data processing field in 1980.

My first job was for Equitable Life Insurance company. I didn't take any programming or data processing classes in college. I got the job by taking an aptitude test and scoring well on it. They hired me, gave me a 6 week class, and brought me along slowly. Suddenly I had a career. They did the same thing for dozens of other people with no data processing background for years and years.

Now, if a company like that wants hire 15-20 new programmers, they would outsource the work or import them.

How exactly is that good for the US worker?

It's good for the shareholders of these companies that then look to avoid paying taxes on top of it.

You are a smart person, but you sometimes have a very narrow and short-sighted view of the world. The issue is that tech companies have no choice but to import workers, because U.S. universities do not do well enough teaching the skills that they need. When the U.S. government effectively wages a war on immigration you can bet that companies will react. I expect the first company to do so will be Amazon. They are currently searching for a second world HQ, and you can bet that it will not be in the U.S.. Uncertainty about the ability to import the workers they need is going to be a problem.

I am glad that you were able to get some training in lieu of college back in 1980 and have a career. It's hard to believe that that was nearly 40 years ago. Things have changed a tad bit since then don't you think?

[tucker6]

Originally Posted by kingfin66

You are a smart person, but you sometimes have a very narrow and short-sighted view of the world. The issue is that tech companies have no choice but to import workers, because U.S. universities do not do well enough teaching the skills that they need. When the U.S. government effectively wages a war on immigration you can bet that companies will react. I expect the first company to do so will be Amazon. They are currently searching for a second world HQ, and you can bet that it will not be in the U.S.. Uncertainty about the ability to import the workers they need is going to be a problem.

I am glad that you were able to get some training in lieu of college back in 1980 and have a career. It's hard to believe that that was nearly 40 years ago. Things have changed a tad bit since then don't you think?

I disagree. While what you state does indeed happen, my experience in working for a large multinational was that it is mostly a cost issue. We would bring in tons of Indians as engineers and IT workers. The main reason was cost. Indians were often 30-40% of the cost to hire an American and much easier to get rid of when the work fell off.

[DSB]

Originally Posted by kingfin66

The issue is that tech companies have no choice but to import workers, because U.S. universities do not do well enough teaching the skills that they need. When the U.S. government effectively wages a war on immigration you can bet that companies will react.

When I see claims like this I have to ask a couple of questions:

1. Are we to believe that our universities can't compete with those in the third word countries where most of these imported workers come from?

2. Can't the truth be that these U.S. companies want to import workers because they are cheaper?

If what these companies are telling us is the truth - and I don't know if there is any way to verify their claims - then why don't these tech co's and the government combine forces to ensure that American workers can fill these positions? How about a program wherein a student gets some kind of tuition reimbursement upon graduation in a course of study which will lead to a job in the areas needed? Maybe a tuition pool that is funded by a portion of taxes collected from these co's.?

I happen to believe that what the co's are telling us is just an excuse to import cheaper labor. More people competing with citizens for U.S. jobs.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by DSB

When I see claims like this I have to ask a couple of questions:

1. Are we to believe that our universities can't compete with those in the third word countries where most of these imported workers come from?

2. Can't the truth be that these U.S. companies want to import workers because they are cheaper?

If what these companies are telling us is the truth - and I don't know if there is any way to verify their claims - then why don't these tech co's and the government combine forces to ensure that American workers can fill these positions? How about a program wherein a student gets some kind of tuition reimbursement upon graduation in a course of study which will lead to a job in the areas needed? Maybe a tuition pool that is funded by a portion of taxes collected from these co's.?

I happen to believe that what the co's are telling us is just an excuse to import cheaper labor. More people competing with citizens for U.S. jobs.

100% True and it is the only excuse they can use cause reality would cause Outrage. Enrollment in IT related fields in college is down because the jobs aren't there for Americans. Indian companies own the pipeline meaning they are entrenched as headhunters and Indians are also in hiring positions at companies. They will hire Indians to Americans at a 10/1 ratio.

[chadk66]

we have to do exactly what Canada does. not allow any foreign workers to work in their country unless said company can prove that there isn't a Canadian available or able to do that job. If these tech companies had to prove that, you can bet your ass 99% or more wouldn't be hiring these foreigners.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by kingfin66

U.S. universities do not do well enough teaching the skills that they need.

And that's why companies have to have current workers train their replacements before they get laid off.

[delayjf]

The issue is that tech companies have no choice but to import workers, because U.S. universities do not do well enough teaching the skills that they need.

Per Clocker's example, the above certainly was not the case with Disney a while back. Anybody know what eventually happened regarding those tech workers at Disney?

[Tom]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I understand...but I have a question to ask:

If NONE of this "trade agreement renegotiation" with China ever takes place...won't you still say that the Trump presidency was a "success" -- simply because it kept Hillary out of the White House?

Was that a rhetorical question?

Of COURSE!

[Tom]

DACA is a problem because of......wait for it.....OBAMA-pajama-boy. From Reagan on, every president looked the other way and let the DACA idea happen. Obama wrote it down, so the courts then had something to rule one, and they did - it is the job of Congress, not the president. Trump played it the right way. Now, DACA will become a real law, as it should. Deporting this group of people is stupid. Much ado about nothing here.

Other than the brain-dead left has no clue what happened.

[reckless]

I know the lefties, RINOs and the pseudo conservatives just love to find fault with President Donald John Trump, on everything he says and does, the last being his DACA decision.

To set the record straight, especially to all the know-it-alls, Trump did what he did for two reasons: (1) to force the phony GOP establishment to show their voters where they really stand on this issue; (2) 21(?) states were lined up to sue the Federal government immediately; Trump ended that threat.

Now, for all the phony liberals who bow at the immoral feet of Chuck Schumer, Hillary! and Barry Obama, in addition to those who that feel Trump was just simply being mean, here's a very brief, but educational video. Enjoy.

http://710wor.iheart.com/featured/ma...-ever-on-daca/

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by kingfin66

The issue is that tech companies have no choice but to import workers, because U.S. universities do not do well enough teaching the skills that they need. When the U.S. government effectively wages a war on immigration you can bet that companies will react. I expect the first company to do so will be Amazon. They are currently searching for a second world HQ, and you can bet that it will not be in the U.S.. Uncertainty about the ability to import the workers they need is going to be a problem.

I am glad that you were able to get some training in lieu of college back in 1980 and have a career. It's hard to believe that that was nearly 40 years ago. Things have changed a tad bit since then don't you think?

My training class had around 20 people in it. There were people with math degrees, history degrees, liberal arts degrees, no degrees etc.. The one thing they had in common was that they were smart enough to pass the aptitude test.

There is absolutely nothing preventing a US company from giving people aptitude tests for technology and other high skilled jobs now and then training them like they did 40 years ago other than they would rather undercut US workers and try to avoid taxes.

I'm calling BS on that. It's a tough competitive world, but if you are dong business here, you should be either being hiring American workers or paying US taxes (you should probably be doing a lot of both).

[chadk66]

we need to do what Canada does. force employers to prove an American is not available or not qualified for a job before they can hire a foreigner. And they would have to provide some solid proof. Which would mean there would never be a foreigner hired. This would never happen because the medical community would fold.