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01-09-2018, 06:32 AM
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#1
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Apprentice
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 10
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True pioneer in th game Mark Cramer-Great read.
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01-09-2018, 09:36 AM
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#2
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clean money
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,568
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Thanks that was a good read
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Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.
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01-09-2018, 12:21 PM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 90
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A "Renaissance Man" indeed!
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01-09-2018, 02:00 PM
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 4,520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diagoras
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Excellent article.
I am an advocate of Cramer's method about TB Cycles.
Thanks.
Allan
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01-09-2018, 03:41 PM
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#5
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 113,024
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Good article.
I met Mark one Saturday night in Baltimore, ~1992-93?
At a Sartin seminar that had just wrapped up and we all headed, of course, toward the nearest liquor. Mark is quite the character!
He carried a stack of copies of races with notes marked all over them in his brief case, and was always ready to pull one out and talk about an idea he was working on. He was obsessed with finding the automatic bet.
I got a lot of ideas from him, some that I still use to this day - ie, my betting 1 unit Win and three units place at 9-2 of more, and his "proven loser" horse.
I wish he was writing more.
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Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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01-09-2018, 08:18 PM
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#6
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Mamma Kimbo
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 435
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kinky handicapping
is good anybody recommend any other of his books
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briswizz
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01-09-2018, 08:45 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,602
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I've read Cramer's books, and his writing style appeals to me...but I could never implement his handicapping methods in my own play. His methods appear too "systematic" to me...as if his primary concern is to come up with angle-plays which win for the long-term. That notion conflicts with my own personal handicapping "philosophy".
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"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
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01-10-2018, 02:16 AM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: burnaby bc canada
Posts: 332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
I've read Cramer's books, and his writing style appeals to me...but I could never implement his handicapping methods in my own play. His methods appear too "systematic" to me...as if his primary concern is to come up with angle-plays which win for the long-term. That notion conflicts with my own personal handicapping "philosophy".
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This is exactly right, and is the theme that runs thru all of Cramer's writing. Tom made the same point above, in his "automatic bet" sentence.
I followed quite a few of Cramer's methods back in the late 90's. Pre-simulcasting days, so the information I saved was specific to one track. I found it very useful, and definitely profitable for the 5 years I collated and used it. My question would be, is it still worthwhile? Times have changed, and so much information is now sitting on the internet and there for anyone willing to look for it.
I can see why he spends his time/efforts in Europe now. Handicapping strikes me as still very much an art over there.
Mike
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01-10-2018, 06:27 AM
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#9
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Apprentice
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racey
is good anybody recommend any other of his books
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Value Handicapping.
This book helps you with the art of creating your line,passing on underlays,spotting overlays.
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01-10-2018, 09:21 AM
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#10
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 113,024
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Although Cramer has "rules" to everything, I think he needs to it that way to test, but I just use the spirit of the angles, no the rules. I may call one horse a proven loser and another in the same race and same record a contender, depending on other factors. Kinky Handicapping II is a grat one - lots of really good angles in that one.
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Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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01-10-2018, 10:07 AM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Castleton, VA
Posts: 136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikekk
This is exactly right, and is the theme that runs thru all of Cramer's writing. Tom made the same point above, in his "automatic bet" sentence.
I followed quite a few of Cramer's methods back in the late 90's. Pre-simulcasting days, so the information I saved was specific to one track. I found it very useful, and definitely profitable for the 5 years I collated and used it. My question would be, is it still worthwhile? Times have changed, and so much information is now sitting on the internet and there for anyone willing to look for it.
I can see why he spends his time/efforts in Europe now. Handicapping strikes me as still very much an art over there.
Mike
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Always been a Cramer fan. I used his tote angle as described in "Kinky Handicapping" in the 90s with good, and occasionally great, success. Finished 1996 in the black for the first, and only, time in my life as a result. And, sadly, it just doesn't seem as effective in today's racing world.
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01-10-2018, 11:16 AM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: White Plains, NY
Posts: 5,315
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The late Art Kaufman, who is mentioned near the bottom of the article, was a regular on the old Prodigy racing board (and perhaps here, I dont recall). He published popular turf pedigree ratings under the name Lee Tomlinson. PA, myself and a few others from Prodigy enjoyed a nice day at the races with Art back in the early '90s. A very, very nice man.
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andicap
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01-10-2018, 11:38 AM
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,669
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I've read some Cramer, and my best takeaway was his concise criteria for a successful angle. As best I can remember it was: 1) Must show reliable profit...2) must contradict conventional doctrine...3) must have roots in some form of logic.
Simple, but so eloquent and instructive.
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01-10-2018, 06:15 PM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andicap
The late Art Kaufman, who is mentioned near the bottom of the article, was a regular on the old Prodigy racing board (and perhaps here, I dont recall). He published popular turf pedigree ratings under the name Lee Tomlinson. PA, myself and a few others from Prodigy enjoyed a nice day at the races with Art back in the early '90s. A very, very nice man.
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I remember Art from the old Prodigy board. His booklets served me well for a number of years.
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01-10-2018, 06:37 PM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: pen
Posts: 4,596
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frank cotolo still haunts pen sometimes (or maybe it's me that does?) and has a book called PONY PLAYER that's a good read about the California era covered in the article. great racing book IF you can find a copy.
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