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10-04-2022, 10:24 AM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 2
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Question for Randy Giles-Pace Appraiser fans/users
Hi folks,
I wanted to ask a question for those of you who use Randy Giles' Pace Appraiser software or his Extreme Pace Handicapping approach in general.
The Pace Appraiser software identifies horses with a pattern called 2dEPB, which stands for 2-dimensional Early Horse running in a Pace Box. For whatever reason, I cannot find any information on what exactly a Pace Box is (as Mr. Giles defines it) or how you identify and use it in your handicapping/betting decisions. If there is anyone here who can lend some insight on this, I waould greatly appreciate it. Thanks very much.
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10-04-2022, 10:58 AM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2022
Posts: 322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oswaldrha
Hi folks,
I wanted to ask a question for those of you who use Randy Giles' Pace Appraiser software or his Extreme Pace Handicapping approach in general.
The Pace Appraiser software identifies horses with a pattern called 2dEPB, which stands for 2-dimensional Early Horse running in a Pace Box. For whatever reason, I cannot find any information on what exactly a Pace Box is (as Mr. Giles defines it) or how you identify and use it in your handicapping/betting decisions. If there is anyone here who can lend some insight on this, I waould greatly appreciate it. Thanks very much.
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Better off putting this in the SOFTWARE SECTION...
and you might get an answer from PartsNut ( Bill H)
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10-04-2022, 02:43 PM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 707
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Agree Partsnut was very good when he was using the program
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10-04-2022, 05:56 PM
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Baton Rouge, La
Posts: 1,795
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oswaldrha
Hi folks,
I wanted to ask a question for those of you who use Randy Giles' Pace Appraiser software or his Extreme Pace Handicapping approach in general.
The Pace Appraiser software identifies horses with a pattern called 2dEPB, which stands for 2-dimensional Early Horse running in a Pace Box. For whatever reason, I cannot find any information on what exactly a Pace Box is (as Mr. Giles defines it) or how you identify and use it in your handicapping/betting decisions. If there is anyone here who can lend some insight on this, I waould greatly appreciate it. Thanks very much.
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Have you emailed Randy himself? He has always answered any questions I have asked him.
__________________
@ShaTinRacing
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10-06-2022, 12:38 PM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Brooklyn NY
Posts: 11
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Just an FYI: I had sent an email to pace@paceappraiser.com but did not get a reply. Made me wonder if the software is still being offered.
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10-06-2022, 12:46 PM
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#6
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DJ M.Walk
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Compton, CA!
Posts: 2,072
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He's out of business!
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10-06-2022, 03:16 PM
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#7
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 16,912
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FWIW, Randy's idea of counting the number of 5+ horses (Quirin ES Pts) was brilliant.
It has become a real game changer over the years for HSH users.
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10-07-2022, 07:49 PM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz
FWIW, Randy's idea of counting the number of 5+ horses (Quirin ES Pts) was brilliant.
It has become a real game changer over the years for HSH users.
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Was it Randy's idea or did it come from Cox? I recall first reading about that idea in Davidowitz's Betting thoroughbreds where he said Cox re-introduced the idea to him.
That said, I do agree the idea is very practical and brilliant.
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10-08-2022, 12:31 AM
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#9
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 16,912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael
Was it Randy's idea or did it come from Cox? I recall first reading about that idea in Davidowitz's Betting thoroughbreds where he said Cox re-introduced the idea to him.
That said, I do agree the idea is very practical and brilliant.
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Ron Cox?
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10-08-2022, 10:39 AM
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz
Ron Cox?
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I'm fairly sure the idea came from Ron Cox. The pressure gauge measure is more or less just a play off of Ron's idea.
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10-08-2022, 11:48 AM
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#11
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BetMix User
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Posts: 1,108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael
I'm fairly sure the idea came from Ron Cox. The pressure gauge measure is more or less just a play off of Ron's idea.
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From my understanding, the idea of speed points and running style was
originated by Dr. William Quirin.
Randy Giles just elaborated on Dr. Quirin's. idea.
Randy Giles Pace Pressure Gauge was contrived from Dr. Quirin's idea.
These numbers were visually portrayed on Randy's interactive web site.
Randy accurately formulated his own speed and pace numbers and gave a more accurate depiction of a horses running style.
The Giles method was derived from Quirin's works but was a unique stand alone application in it's own right.
He has also written a published book on "Extreme Pace Handicapping".
Which more or less portrays how his unique method was derived.
I am not familiar with Ron Cox.
Please let us all know who he is or was and what he has written, done or otherwise created.
Last edited by Partsnut; 10-08-2022 at 11:50 AM.
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10-08-2022, 12:17 PM
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#12
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crusty old guy
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Snarkytown USA
Posts: 3,919
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According to Davidowitz, Ron Cox was a professional player who published trip notes and pace figs in the Northern California Track Record.
Page 150 of the Second Revised edition of Betting Thoroughbreds: Regarding Quirin's speed points, "Cox reintroduced this method to me in 1991, and I have found that it has worked wonderfully predicting hot and soft pace structures..."
"When three horses in a given race combine for 21-24 speed points or four have a combined total of 27+..."
I saw no mention of the 5+ speed point horses idea, per se. I have the first edition of Betting Thoroughbreds but I am too lazy to see if it's in there. Interestingly Davidowitz wrote, "Cox is totally unprepared to state that his numbers would work (at tracks other than in Northern California)". [My edit]
What would be interesting is knowing if there is any significant predictive difference when comparing speed totals using 5+ horses versus 6+. I think HTR uses 6+ as a factor, but I am not sure.
__________________
"Don't believe everything that you read on the Internet." -- Abraham Lincoln
Last edited by headhawg; 10-08-2022 at 12:26 PM.
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10-08-2022, 04:48 PM
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#13
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,871
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__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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10-08-2022, 05:51 PM
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#14
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 16,912
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Ron Cox was a friend.
Yes, he and Dan Montilian (PA member) worked on the Northern California Track Record together.
Ron died way too young.
Seems I only speak with Danny about once a year now, when he gets my pars.
Both fine men.
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10-08-2022, 05:58 PM
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#15
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 16,912
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A little late but Tome really pointed to the whole story.
Thanks, Tom.
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