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08-13-2021, 11:28 AM
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 590
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track employees are only intrested in there own well being most are selfservant
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08-13-2021, 12:14 PM
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#32
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2021
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ubercapper
BetUS and the rest of the offshore books are in violation of U.S. law (USIGEA) for accepting any payments by U.S. residents. They know it, but most get away with it, for now.
With the proliferation of legal sports betting, many state's AGs are going to be cracking down and when there are enough of them the FBI will get involved (as it did with poker sites). New Jersey already initiated a number of actions in recent years and other states will follow.
The #1 reason not to bet with BetUS and the rest is bets are not commingled. They are booked bets and not even one penny goes back to trainers, jockeys, grooms and other people who put on the show. They're stealing from the sport we love and that's why they have never seen one penny of my action and never will.
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what would you do if the sport you love so much told you you couldn't bet it no more because of where you live?
I doubt you'll give it up...or move
Also, these offshore sites give YOU incentives that the US took away from you.
In NY , the Bill was signed in April.....it won't be ready till 2022 Super Bowl
(hopefully) . Our neighboring state NJ has it roaring in stride a few years, ya think we coulda sped it somehow???
People do what they have to do before its too late !!!
GB
Last edited by geroge.burns99; 08-13-2021 at 12:15 PM.
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08-13-2021, 01:49 PM
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#33
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by castaway01
It's interesting the change in tone from 5 or 10 years ago on this topic. Back then it was "You're stupid if you're not taking advantage of rebates and betting offshore, you're leaving money on the table." Now it's "You're stupid to bet offshore, they won't pay you."
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The U.S. Government's "Black Friday" intervention had a lot to do with it, I think. The "trustworthy" sportsbooks have fled this country...and the banking restrictions have made the customer withdrawls very risky with the gambling outfits that have remained.
In the old days I used to bet horses with Pinnaclesports. I got a 7% rebate...and never had a worry in the world.
__________________
Live to play another day.
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08-13-2021, 02:08 PM
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,230
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Thanks for all the replies.
Even though I bet horses, I dislike additional risks, so may not proceed.
I don't have crypto -- I don't trust it. Like the Danish should not have trusted investing in Tulip bulbs in the 17th century, or whenever it was.
It also looks like they do not take Discover Card, the only one I have
So guess I will have to lobby our legislature. Minnesota is missing out on added free tax revenue from the live betting pools.
I already called my state senator twice and she did not return my call. I didn't
state what I was calling about. I was a salesman for over 30 years and always returned calls.
Do politicians not believe in communicating with their constituents?
I will call another Senator that I graduated with next week.
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08-13-2021, 03:49 PM
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#35
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 590
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at least tulip bulbs are tangeble bitcoins are electrons politicians are like trying to contact a CEO of a public company. but there only intrest is when its time to vote the rest of the time there taking the graft gl up there in the land of 10k lakes
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08-13-2021, 03:59 PM
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#36
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 16,872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ubercapper
The #1 reason not to bet with BetUS and the rest is bets are not commingled. They are booked bets and not even one penny goes back to trainers, jockeys, grooms and other people who put on the show. They're stealing from the sport we love and that's why they have never seen one penny of my action and never will.
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Actually, the #1 reason is that bookies only like losers.
As much as I care about the health of the racing industry...
Well, there is a saying a psychologist shared with me that applies here: "You can't care more about the patient than he cares about himself." I simply will not worry about whether or not the tracks are getting fed.
All that being said, personally, I'd not put my money with a bookmaking system that did not feed the industry.
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08-13-2021, 05:36 PM
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#37
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ubercapper
BetUS and the rest of the offshore books are in violation of U.S. law (USIGEA) for accepting any payments by U.S. residents. They know it, but most get away with it, for now.
With the proliferation of legal sports betting, many state's AGs are going to be cracking down and when there are enough of them the FBI will get involved (as it did with poker sites). New Jersey already initiated a number of actions in recent years and other states will follow.
The #1 reason not to bet with BetUS and the rest is bets are not commingled. They are booked bets and not even one penny goes back to trainers, jockeys, grooms and other people who put on the show. They're stealing from the sport we love and that's why they have never seen one penny of my action and never will.
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I agree some, but I disagree more. The day this sport decided to rebate some players and not others, they made it an unfair game to the masses. I am not going to get into the whole rebate thing again(I have at least 100 posts on it, maybe 200), but the best even a lot of solid horseplayers can get to is maybe -10 % or -5 %. So if they want to lose a little or maybe make a little instead of donating constantly I am not going to hold it against them if they want to get good rebates. If racing was dealing from a fair deck (so to speak) I might fully agree with you. Yes it is unfair to participants of the sport, but it is also unfair to joe public that they can bet on track and get no rebate while Mr. Whale or just someone who happens to live in the right state might be getting 20% trifecta rebates at some tracks. Fix the game and I agree with you, until then, racetracks do what they choose to do to survive, why shouldn't players do the same.
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08-13-2021, 05:50 PM
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#38
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2021
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poindexter
I agree some, but I disagree more. The day this sport decided to rebate some players and not others, they made it an unfair game to the masses. I am not going to get into the whole rebate thing again(I have at least 100 posts on it, maybe 200), but the best even a lot of solid horseplayers can get to is maybe -10 % or -5 %. So if they want to lose a little or maybe make a little instead of donating constantly I am not going to hold it against them if they want to get good rebates. If racing was dealing from a fair deck (so to speak) I might fully agree with you. Yes it is unfair to participants of the sport, but it is also unfair to joe public that they can bet on track and get no rebate while Mr. Whale or just someone who happens to live in the right state might be getting 20% trifecta rebates at some tracks. Fix the game and I agree with you, until then, racetracks do what they choose to do to survive, why shouldn't players do the same.
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right on!!!
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08-13-2021, 07:03 PM
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#39
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poindexter
I agree some, but I disagree more. The day this sport decided to rebate some players and not others, they made it an unfair game to the masses. I am not going to get into the whole rebate thing again(I have at least 100 posts on it, maybe 200), but the best even a lot of solid horseplayers can get to is maybe -10 % or -5 %. So if they want to lose a little or maybe make a little instead of donating constantly I am not going to hold it against them if they want to get good rebates. If racing was dealing from a fair deck (so to speak) I might fully agree with you. Yes it is unfair to participants of the sport, but it is also unfair to joe public that they can bet on track and get no rebate while Mr. Whale or just someone who happens to live in the right state might be getting 20% trifecta rebates at some tracks. Fix the game and I agree with you, until then, racetracks do what they choose to do to survive, why shouldn't players do the same.
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I have not spent a single second worrying about not "contributing to the industry that runs the game". "Loyalty" works both ways...and if the "industry" isn't interested in my own financial welfare, then I am not interested in the financial welfare of the "industry". If I ever find an overseas betting outlet that I deem reliable...then all my horse-betting action is going overseas.
__________________
Live to play another day.
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08-13-2021, 07:35 PM
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#40
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poindexter
I agree some, but I disagree more. The day this sport decided to rebate some players and not others, they made it an unfair game to the masses. I am not going to get into the whole rebate thing again(I have at least 100 posts on it, maybe 200), but the best even a lot of solid horseplayers can get to is maybe -10 % or -5 %. So if they want to lose a little or maybe make a little instead of donating constantly I am not going to hold it against them if they want to get good rebates. If racing was dealing from a fair deck (so to speak) I might fully agree with you. Yes it is unfair to participants of the sport, but it is also unfair to joe public that they can bet on track and get no rebate while Mr. Whale or just someone who happens to live in the right state might be getting 20% trifecta rebates at some tracks. Fix the game and I agree with you, until then, racetracks do what they choose to do to survive, why shouldn't players do the same.
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I'd avoid offshore because I don't like to see a situation where no money is getting back to the tracks but your points are valid IMO. I would also add that the number of trainers who aren't above manipulating performance using legal (yes legal) drugs is now such a large number of trainers that the game is not what it once was in the pre-clenbuterol days or pre-lasix days and when they do this they do it IMO for their own wagering purposes i.e. to know when to zig while the public zags. They're not doing this for the integrity of the game, they're definitely not doing this FOR the players and yet the player's money is expected to get back to them. It's a broken system at the moment IMO. Things may get better, I'm optimistic.
Last edited by MJC922; 08-13-2021 at 07:38 PM.
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08-13-2021, 08:03 PM
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#41
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 16,872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
I have not spent a single second worrying about not "contributing to the industry that runs the game". "Loyalty" works both ways...and if the "industry" isn't interested in my own financial welfare, then I am not interested in the financial welfare of the "industry". If I ever find an overseas betting outlet that I deem reliable...then all my horse-betting action is going overseas.
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Absolutely right!
These are the guys who think that the CUSTOMER IN RACING are the people who own race horses.
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08-13-2021, 08:08 PM
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#42
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 590
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on the $$$ thask the HBPA and track owners can take care of themselves its all just buisness and the strong will out
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08-13-2021, 08:37 PM
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#43
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Near Lexington, KY
Posts: 3,246
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__________________
Just when you least expect it...just what you least expect-The Pet Shop Boys.
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08-14-2021, 09:19 AM
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#44
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
The U.S. Government's "Black Friday" intervention had a lot to do with it, I think. The "trustworthy" sportsbooks have fled this country...and the banking restrictions have made the customer withdrawls very risky with the gambling outfits that have remained.
In the old days I used to bet horses with Pinnaclesports. I got a 7% rebate...and never had a worry in the world.
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Pinnacle was the best. I bet the horses but primarily bet baseball. They had great lines. I was sorry to see them ban US customers.
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