Does Accelerate now win HOY over Justify?

[AskinHaskin]

There is but a single horse who is still undefeated this year and who has more 2018 wins than Justify. That horse spent most of 2017 in the $12,500 - $30,000 claiming ranks winning just 3 of 11, and has never so much as raced in a graded stakes.

Justify remains undefeated, and despite what you've heard recited for decades, he is the only undefeated U.S. Triple Crown winner.

This so-called debate really is a no-brainer.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by AskinHaskin

There is but a single horse who is still undefeated this year and who has more 2018 wins than Justify. That horse spent most of 2017 in the $12,500 - $30,000 claiming ranks winning just 3 of 11, and has never so much as raced in a graded stakes.

Justify remains undefeated, and despite what you've heard recited for decades, he is the only undefeated U.S. Triple Crown winner.

This so-called debate really is a no-brainer.

The way you stay undefeated is by not running against anyone.

I will take Citation's record, with his losses, over Justify's any day of the week.

[classhandicapper]

I'm a little torn by another category.

Sister Charlie or Enable?

One has the dominant overall US record and the other IMO is superior, won the bigger BC race, and would have been 1/2 against the other if they faced off.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Winstar does not need the money.

And more importantly, is this your vision of a healthy sport? Where the breeding industry controls everything and good horses run 6 times and then retire untested?

You know nothing about my vision about anything.

I doubt you know anything about Winstar either.

[ReplayRandall]

Undefeated Triple Crown Winner----Justify


Why is this thread still open?

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

You know nothing about my vision about anything.

I doubt you know anything about Winstar either.

I asked a question Vic. I didn't accuse you of anything. I asked a question about whether you think 6 restricted races and retire for breeding money is good for the sport. I don't think it's an illegitimate question.

I definitely know a fair amount about Winstar though. Indeed, the moment Justify crossed the finish line at the Belmont I said to everyone at a 20-40 limit table at the Bellagio "you will never see that horse on a racetrack again".

[AskinHaskin]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

The way you stay undefeated is by not running against anyone.

I will take Citation's record, with his losses, over Justify's any day of the week.

Your problem remains that Citation is ineligible for 2018 HOY.

Everyone knows that Citation crunched a prior, older HOY when merely prepping for his Derby, but he remains ineligible for this debate.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by AskinHaskin

Your problem remains that Citation remains ineligible for 2018 HOY.

Everyone knows that Citation crunched a prior, older HOY when merely prepping for his Derby, but he remains ineligible for this debate.

My point is saying "wow Justify never lost" is absolutely the wrong way to look at this. The correct way to look at this is "wow, Justify's connections ducked any situation where he might lose".

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by the little guy

Here's the post I responded to...




In this post you start by discussing ( poorly, but discussing nonetheless ) Justify's potential stallion value. You follow by saying he was split into "so many parts" that the owners are unlikely to make much money. Then you follow by saying you would like to see Sol's books. While this is a cumbersome stream of conscious, I don't think it's illogical to suggest you didn't understand Sol's original deal. Thus, I clarified it for you.

A simple "thanks" would have been enough. You could have added "oh, I got that wrong" but we all know you could NEVER do that. So, instead, you are on attack.

You're too easy.

It matters not to me if you didn't understand the conversation. Your ego must block a big part of your normal brain function.

For your information, when one SELLS a horse as a stallion prospect, they make money. They don't have to keep a stallion to make money. Let me know if I need to explain anything else that is elementary to you.

[ultracapper]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

My point is saying "wow Justify never lost" is absolutely the wrong way to look at this. The correct way to look at this is "wow, Justify's connections ducked any situation where he might lose".

He could have lost any race he was in, particularly the last three.

[cj]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

My point is saying "wow Justify never lost" is absolutely the wrong way to look at this. The correct way to look at this is "wow, Justify's connections ducked any situation where he might lose".

LOL, he ran in the Kentucky Derby, arguably the toughest race to win in the world. But yeah, they ducked any situation where he might lose.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by cj

LOL, he ran in the Kentucky Derby, arguably the toughest race to win in the world. But yeah, they ducked any situation where he might lose.

We do seem to be forgetting how things shook out for the Belmont, and also how the TC has now changed to where most all the good horses outside the Derby winner skip the Preakness. I also find it interesting that we’ve gotten 2 TC winners after CD implemented a new system which has kept out some of the cheaper speed. Any correlation?

I admit it. Not a fan. To me, Justify winning tarnished the TC, showing how it doesn’t take a truly exceptional horse to win it. AP was a far better horse.

[classhandicapper]

I don't understand all the Justify hate.

Horses rarely start running consistent triple digit Beyers until they get plenty of seasoning. He did it right out out of the box.

He won the Derby with a 103 after putting away a stakes caliber sprinter in a race that clearly favored horses that weren't on the pace or chasing.

The Preakness was less impressive, but he still put away another pretty good 3yo in Good Magic and held on on a mess of a track.

Even his Belmont was probably better than given credit for. He wasn't loose because there was no other speed or because he had blockers. He was loose because he outran the other speeds with a 23.37 first quarter. He put them all away quickly.

I understand that people are down on him because of his mediocre Beyer figures and the general weakness of the 3yo crop, but "trip adjusted" his own figures are better. And given how early he was in his development, I suspect the underlying talent was extraordinary. We just never got to see it.

IMO, spring 3yos are not going to run big figures anymore. As 2yos the horses are very lightly raced now and then trainers go into the Derby with fewer preps because they want to be fresher. That may or may not be the optimal strategy for keeping your horse sound, fresh, and winning the Derby, but I'm almost certain that's not the optimal strategy to maximize a horse's Beyer figure. It's not just age that matters. Seasoning also begets development.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

My point is saying "wow Justify never lost" is absolutely the wrong way to look at this. The correct way to look at this is "wow, Justify's connections ducked any situation where he might lose".

It's late in the year, and there is some serious competition, but this is definitely a nominee for the worst post of the year. Wow is this dumb.


Did Fager Fan steal your login?

[bello]

Originally Posted by the little guy

It's late in the year, and there is some serious competition, but this is definitely a nominee for the worst post of the year. Wow is this dumb.


Did Fager Fan steal your login?

How about posting once in a while without the snide insults.