Thread for Russian Attack on Ukraine

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I’m one of the few telling the truth start to finish.

Guys like you are propagandized fools that think the US and NATO are the good guys, this was all unprovoked, and Russia is still a global bogey man hell bent on world domination. That is an idiotic world view. It’s 30 years in the past, but security is obviously always an issue.

Much like the US, Russia under Putin is simply a corrupt country enriching politicians and friends of the government. All they want is to do is get even richer. They have no interest in political domination. They want to do energy deals and natural resource deals globally and they want their borders secure from western encroachers like NATO.

It’s China and the US that are trying to to dominate the globe politically, but guys like you are too foolish to see the threat China is becoming while you are wasting time and resources with 2nd string counties like Russia.

The correct foreign policy always was and still is, keep NATO and the US out of the Eastern European countries, do business with Russia, form closer ties with Russia, and together offset the rise of China. Instead we are being dumber than a pile of rocks by driving Russia and China together in opposition to the US and Europe. It’s almost like we are trying to be idiots. And guys like you believe our press. It would be comical if it wasn’t so sad and dangerous.

I've swatted this nonsense away before. In this thread even.

I'm not wasting anymore time on it.

Your three points in the last post are laughable.

[MargieRose]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I’m one of the few telling the truth start to finish.

Guys like you are propagandized fools that think the US and NATO are the good guys, this was all unprovoked, and Russia is still a global bogey man hell bent on world domination. That is an idiotic world view. It’s 30 years in the past, but security is obviously always an issue.

Much like the US, Russia under Putin is simply a corrupt country enriching politicians and friends of the government. All they want is to do is get even richer. They have no interest in political domination. They want to do energy deals and natural resource deals globally and they want their borders secure from western encroachers like NATO.

It’s China and the US that are trying to to dominate the globe politically, but guys like you are too foolish to see the threat China is becoming while you are wasting time and resources with 2nd string counties like Russia.

The correct foreign policy always was and still is, keep NATO and the US out of the Eastern European countries [Trump], do business with Russia [Trump], form closer ties with Russia [Trump], and together offset the rise of China [Trump]. Instead we are being dumber than a pile of rocks by driving Russia and China together in opposition to the US and Europe. It’s almost like we are trying to be idiots. And guys like you believe our press. It would be comical if it wasn’t so sad and dangerous.

Great post!

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

I've swatted this nonsense away before. In this thread even.

I'm not wasting anymore time on it.

Your three points in the last post are laughable.

So you think Russia is hell bent on world domination?

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

So you think Russia is hell bent on world domination?

Russia is a revanchist state seeking to recreate it's empire.

They've said as much. Putin has said as much.

Ukraine is not interested in that path. Most of the old empire is not interested in that path.

It's not Western Propaganda or Democratic plot that's caused Sweden and Finland to break a centuries worth of neutrality.

Posters like those earlier are talking out of their ass.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

I've swatted this nonsense away before. In this thread even.

I'm not wasting anymore time on it.

Your three points in the last post are laughable.

I see you are still incapable of addressing obvious truths and will continue relying on western propaganda to reinforce your delusions.

This is your argument:

Russia is a big bad boogie man that is a still a political and military threat to the US and west. That’s why they invaded Ukraine.

This is my argument:

Russia has a GDP less than CA and is no longer an economic, military, or political threat to anyone unless provoked into war over national security concerns or even worse provoked into using nukes.

This is the result.

Right now, Russia is struggling in a war with a 3rd string military nation right on its border. Does anyone on earth think they are a threat to the west, US or NATO country far from Russia? It’s so hysterically laughable you could hurt yourself from laughing so hard. They are a 2nd string military and 2nd string economy. A conventional war with the west would be over in weeks. The only thing they have is nukes. So don’t give them reason to contemplate using them.!!!!

This war is about one thing and one thing only.

Russian National Security!!!!

The west has been trying to pull Ukraine (and other strategic nations) under western influence and open the door to eventual NATO participation and a military presence there. That’s a NO GO for Russia in the same way Russian missiles were a no go in Cuba for the US. It’s that simple and everyone knows it except for fools that listen to the western press. Just stay out of Eastern Europe and Eastern European politics and all the problems go away. Those countries can be independent, but not closely tied to NATO and the west because then they are a threat. Better for two devils to work together than fight each other.

[elysiantraveller]

This is your argument:

Russia is a big bad boogie man that is a still a political and military threat to the US and west. That’s why they invaded Ukraine.

No. It's not.

This is my argument:

Russia has a GDP less than CA and is no longer an economic, military, or political threat to anyone unless provoked into war over national security concerns or even worse provoked into using nukes.

Georgia and Syria would like a word.

This war is about one thing and one thing only.

Russian National Security!!!!

Literally the previous post you said unite Russian speaking peoples... thats code... you realize that right?

Originally Posted by Putin

Since time immemorial, the people living in the south-west of what has historically been Russian land have called themselves Russians and Orthodox Christians. This was the case before the 17th century, when a portion of this territory rejoined the Russian state, and after....
The policy to root out the Russian language and culture and promote assimilation carries on.

[elysiantraveller]

I always find this type of psychological warfare interesting.

https://twitter.com/WhereisRussia/status/1569317899436978176

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Dumbest timeline confirmed...

[classhandicapper]

More propaganda from you

If Russian speaking people that are part of eastern Ukraine want independence and to be more closely aligned with Russia, I’m all for it. I call that freedom. Most of the problems in the world are related to ethnic and religious differences where one group wants independence from a larger state but the state wants to keep power and dictate to the minority. That’s what’s going on there. Russia will grant them independence. That political alignment will improve Russian national security. That area (along with Crimea) are key for Russia’s defense. It’s a win win except for the west that wants to consolidate power and encroach on Russia, put Ukraine in NATO, and then put military there.

Assad in Syria has had a long relationship with Russia. The problem is the US meddling in the Middle East again trying to overthrow yet another government. We don’t have to like every government or leader, but we shouldn’t be using the CIA to meddle in internal politics and try to overthrow them either (like we have done all over world and did in Ukraine also by the way). We have the same kind of unholy relationships when we back dictators and other vile leaders just because they are aligned with us.

Georgia is the same as Ukraine. I’m in favor of separatists that want to be independent of Russia if that’s a majority, but if you are going to do that you CANNOT be part of NATO. That’s what they want and that’s what makes it a national security issue for Russia. It would be like Canada or Mexico aligning with the Soviet Union and joining the Warsaw Pack during the cold war. Then putting Soviet military on our border. We didn’t even tolerate Cuba and other leftists regimes in central and South America without trying to back door overthrow them and funding anti government forces. Could you imagine what it would be like if they were on on our border?

Listen, I’m an American citizen. I want what’s best for us and the world, but I’m not a delusional propagandized American like you.

There are 3 sides.

The US side (total bullshit).

The Russian side (a mix of bullshit and national defense).

The truth (both sides are corrupt and power hungry and innocent people are dying because of it)

[PaceAdvantage]

Like I've been saying for 20+ years on here...if we all actually knew the truth about everything in this world...we'd end up huddled in the corner under a blanket, sucking our thumbs and crying out for mommy for the rest of our lives.

The corruption, the evil and the lies are too mind-blowing to be believed...and when a choice few see the light of day, it's easy to manipulate and propagandize it all away.

[mhaney0423]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

More propaganda from you

If Russian speaking people that are part of eastern Ukraine want independence and to be more closely aligned with Russia, I’m all for it. I call that freedom. Most of the problems in the world are related to ethnic and religious differences where one group wants independence from a larger state but the state wants to keep power and dictate to the minority. That’s what’s going on there. Russia will grant them independence.

Just out of curiousity, how would you feel about the Spanish speaking people in the southern US wanting to me more closely aligned with Mexico? It would be freedom? Maybe Mexico would grant Texas and Arizona freedom?

[fast4522]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

More propaganda from you

If Russian speaking people that are part of eastern Ukraine want independence and to be more closely aligned with Russia, I’m all for it. I call that freedom. Most of the problems in the world are related to ethnic and religious differences where one group wants independence from a larger state but the state wants to keep power and dictate to the minority. That’s what’s going on there. Russia will grant them independence. That political alignment will improve Russian national security. That area (along with Crimea) are key for Russia’s defense. It’s a win win except for the west that wants to consolidate power and encroach on Russia, put Ukraine in NATO, and then put military there.

Assad in Syria has had a long relationship with Russia. The problem is the US meddling in the Middle East again trying to overthrow yet another government. We don’t have to like every government or leader, but we shouldn’t be using the CIA to meddle in internal politics and try to overthrow them either (like we have done all over world and did in Ukraine also by the way). We have the same kind of unholy relationships when we back dictators and other vile leaders just because they are aligned with us.

Georgia is the same as Ukraine. I’m in favor of separatists that want to be independent of Russia if that’s a majority, but if you are going to do that you CANNOT be part of NATO. That’s what they want and that’s what makes it a national security issue for Russia. It would be like Canada or Mexico aligning with the Soviet Union and joining the Warsaw Pack during the cold war. Then putting Soviet military on our border. We didn’t even tolerate Cuba and other leftists regimes in central and South America without trying to back door overthrow them and funding anti government forces. Could you imagine what it would be like if they were on on our border?

Listen, I’m an American citizen. I want what’s best for us and the world, but I’m not a delusional propagandized American like you.

There are 3 sides.

The US side (total bullshit).

The Russian side (a mix of bullshit and national defense).

The truth (both sides are corrupt and power hungry and innocent people are dying because of it)

Solid post.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Georgia is the same as Ukraine. I’m in favor of separatists that want to be independent of Russia if that’s a majority, but if you are going to do that you CANNOT be part of NATO. That’s what they want and that’s what makes it a national security issue for Russia.

Where was the propaganda? Was it when I disagreed with you and quoted Putin?

Jesus Christ... the amount of nonsense and waffle here is insane. I can't waste time with all of it.

They can be independent but can't negotiate their own treaties...?

Interesting...

[elysiantraveller]

Remember folks... this is a war over Russian National Security and mostly NATO's fault.

https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1569965542693376000

Some here need to learn to just take the L.

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Dumbest timeline confirmed...

[PaceAdvantage]

Well, it can't be about NATO, because Ukraine was never going to be in NATO no matter what.

That's what they told Zelensky anyway...and I believe them.

So you're right.

Not about NATO inclusion.

Probably about Russia's desire to conquer the world with its third rate military...

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Where was the propaganda?

Here's the issue.

People read the US press.

They never bother to think about what the Russians are thinking about the west's interference in the politics of countries close to the Russian border (using the CIA etc..) and what the eventual expansion of NATO and missiles/troops into those countries means for their security.

The Russians know their are elements within the US that still view Russia as an enemy and Putin as someone that must be overthrown and replaced by a pro western leader. The Russians are mostly playing defense in Europe, but it gets spun into offense by a west that's hell bent on getting rid of Putin.

All of this might at least be defensible if we weren't such hypocrites. We do business with some of the worst examples of humanity in world history as long as they back us. Once they are against us we invade, overthrow, and kill them.

It would be very easy to do business with Putin, get Russia aligned with the west, and face the real long term problem with China. But we are driving Russia into China's arms.