Monmouth Park

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by castaway01

Fitting for this site, but bizarre.

LOL...as if...

[Scanman]

Originally Posted by onefast99

Raised on MP over 18 years of running their. People are very quick to throw Dennis Drazin under the bus he did antie up and got control of the track due to the NJSEA and then Governor Christies failure to market racing properly in NJ. This was perfect timing for this group to come in and do what they had to do! as for the no crop or whip rule Jocks can still carry the crop or whip but cannot hit the horses many have elected to ride with those whips or crops and it hasn’t stopped me from racing there or betting there. Since no one has come forward in making any significant changes in horse racing the New Jersey racing commission took it upon themselves to make a change. If anyone thinks other tracks aren’t looking at this no hit ruling you are dead wrong soon others will follow as well.

Solid post. I agree completely. Haters will hate and trolls will troll. They are easily disregarded. You clearly have your thumb on the pulse of NJ racing and we benefit greatly from your well informed perspective.

Concerning Drazin, he took a gamble with the "no whipping" rule and I hope it will pay off. To use a Moneyball line - "the first one through the wall always gets bloodied". I respect his courage to implement this protocol.

Originally Posted by CJ

So how many safety incidents have there been at Monmouth because of no whips?

None to note, so far. Perhaps, it would be good for MP to come out with some feedback from the riders concerning their "hands and heels" experience. It may help assuage the feelings those who have a negative perspective concerning the "no whipping" rule.

Generally, I think MP has done okay for the first two weekends. Many top trainers are running there: C. Brown, Clement, Pletcher, Assmusen, Trombetta, Matz; as well as last year's leading trainer Breen. Much of the same rider colony has returned less Bravo and Gallardo. They have chosen a different path and I wish them success. But the show has gone on without them, and in time, they will soon be forgotten.

As for handle, yeah, it's down a bit, but the numbers may be a little misleading and I think it's a bit too early to tell. I'm working on an analysis using 2019 v 2021 numbers. I'll wait until the end of June before I post what it shows. It should be noted that anyone using 2020 numbers as a comparison is tantamount to chasing fools errand. Last year's, COVID-19 meet numbers are not a legimate comparison.

[Elkchester Road]

Originally Posted by alhattab

Elkchester- I’ve heard a lot of people voice displeasure over Mth’s handling of Servis and Navarro. I get that. Curious if you (or others) have similar issues with Gulfstream or even NYRA. It is a genuine question- I’m not trying to defend Mth or anything. I could see singling out Mth if these guys hit their 30% win rate at Mth, but they won everywhere, stabled at GP (Servis may have had stalls in NY but I don’t think so), and Servis trained for a NYRA board member. So why do you single out Mth in this regard (your disdain due to Drazin is another matter!). Thanks

alhattab...Gulfstream and NYRA, combined...are about 25% of my bets. They both have their "problem children", too...but it doesn't seem as difficult to fade them than it would have been trying to fade Navarro and Servis at Monmouth. They really raced a lot of horses...and were hard to avoid.

There were some very seedy things that came out last year after Navarro and Servis were hemmed up. One of them was sharing a particular barn for their "activities". The two of them also very rarely raced against each other.

The gist of the matter is this...how much of what i read/heard is truth, I don't know. But...I don't have to. All I (and others) have to do is bet at other tracks. I remember a time not so long ago that it could be argued that Monmouth Park was the best mid-level track in America. That ship has sailed. Those two Parasites were allowed to set up shop under Drazin's watch. The "problem children" Gulfstream or the NYRA tracks aren't near as much of an overarching problem. This is my particular problem with Monmouth Park. The whipping issue doesn't bother me because I never bet there. The Jockeys will continue to work...either at MP...or elsewhere.

Monmouth Park has earned their spot. They will continue to do so...for better or worse.

alhattab...that is a Boss Screen Name.

[Elkchester Road]

Originally Posted by Zman179

I have been to numerous racetracks and the last thing I would call Monmouth is a “shithole.” The quality of racing isn’t the best, but the facility is very nice and is a nice place to visit.

Point made, Zman179. I should have qualified what I said. Shithole as far as betting.

[Elkchester Road]

Originally Posted by onefast99

Raised on MP over 18 years of running their. People are very quick to throw Dennis Drazin under the bus he did antie up and got control of the track due to the NJSEA and then Governor Christies failure to market racing properly in NJ. This was perfect timing for this group to come in and do what they had to do! as for the no crop or whip rule Jocks can still carry the crop or whip but cannot hit the horses many have elected to ride with those whips or crops and it hasn’t stopped me from racing there or betting there. Since no one has come forward in making any significant changes in horse racing the New Jersey racing commission took it upon themselves to make a change. If anyone thinks other tracks aren’t looking at this no hit ruling you are dead wrong soon others will follow as well.

Yep. He was thrown under the bus. As he should have been. What he did was well and good...for the Horsemen that raced there. Ignore the Bettors...ehhh, it is what it is.

[alhattab]

Elkchester- appreciate your thoughtful response. You pointed out the thing that bothered me most about the Servis/Navarro matter- they rarely raced against or claimed from each other. Reeks to high heaven. In retrospect someone watching should have picked up on that.

As for Alhattab, thank you. I had one person ask me what family or part of the Middle East I was from (I can’t recall which), and this was on a racing board somewhere! (it might have been the old Dan Illman FormBlog).

[Al Gobbi]

Monmouth Handle Down; Are Whips To Blame?

Because of the pandemic in 2020, six-race cards on Fridays and a run of rainy weather to start this year's meet, apples-to-apples, year-over-year handle comparisons aren't easy to come by at Monmouth. But all indications are that the Jersey Shore track has gotten off to a poor start, and that raises an important question–are bettors staying away because of the new rules that prohibit whipping?

Sunday's card was the first of the meet where all the scheduled races were run on the turf and there was not an abundance of scratches. Despite those favorable conditions, Monmouth handled only $3,333,043 Sunday. There were 11 races and 86 betting interests. Because of COVID-19, there was no racing on that date in 2020. In 2019, $4,317,739 was wagered on a 12-race card that consisted of 94 betting interests. Based on the raw, all-sources total handle for the days, handle in 2021 was off by 22.8% from 2019. Per-race betting fell from $359,811 in 2019 to $303,003 this year, a difference of 15.8%.

https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.co...hips-to-blame/

[geroge.burns99]

The banned jockeys twitter a/c and reason why of boycott...

https://nj1015.com/monmouth-park-joc...nti-whip-rule/

[classhandicapper]

Has anyone been tracking the percentage of winning favorites and average winning price at MTH so far?

I'm going to guess that adjusted for field size and any other differences, it's going to be the same as in prior years as soon as the sample size is large enough.

[geroge.burns99]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Has anyone been tracking the percentage of winning favorites and average winning price at MTH so far?

I'm going to guess that adjusted for field size and any other differences, it's going to be the same as in prior years as soon as the sample size is large enough.

Actually its 47% so far and a roi 1.03

last year 37% .84

[alhattab]

Originally Posted by Al Gobbi

https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.co...hips-to-blame/

Al- I mentioned in posts 53 et seq that one has to look at other tracks to get a true read on why Mth handle is what it is on any given day. The TDN analysis did not get into this but it is definitely a factor.

[Gamblin4ever]

Originally Posted by Scanman

Solid post. I agree completely. Haters will hate and trolls will troll. They are easily disregarded. You clearly have your thumb on the pulse of NJ racing and we benefit greatly from your well informed perspective.

Concerning Drazin, he took a gamble with the "no whipping" rule and I hope it will pay off. To use a Moneyball line - "the first one through the wall always gets bloodied". I respect his courage to implement this protocol.

None to note, so far. Perhaps, it would be good for MP to come out with some feedback from the riders concerning their "hands and heels" experience. It may help assuage the feelings those who have a negative perspective concerning the "no whipping" rule.

Generally, I think MP has done okay for the first two weekends. Many top trainers are running there: C. Brown, Clement, Pletcher, Assmusen, Trombetta, Matz; as well as last year's leading trainer Breen. Much of the same rider colony has returned less Bravo and Gallardo. They have chosen a different path and I wish them success. But the show has gone on without them, and in time, they will soon be forgotten.

As for handle, yeah, it's down a bit, but the numbers may be a little misleading and I think it's a bit too early to tell. I'm working on an analysis using 2019 v 2021 numbers. I'll wait until the end of June before I post what it shows. It should be noted that anyone using 2020 numbers as a comparison is tantamount to chasing fools errand. Last year's, COVID-19 meet numbers are not a legimate comparison.

In regards to handle, MP lost the gamblers who are against the no whip rule. If no major incidents involving the no whip rule, I can see other tracks following behind MP. I don't gamble on MP due to the fact of not winning enough compared to other tracks. I am against Drazin and MP for welcoming Baffert to race even with his suspension looming.

[Elkchester Road]

Originally Posted by alhattab

Elkchester- appreciate your thoughtful response. You pointed out the thing that bothered me most about the Servis/Navarro matter- they rarely raced against or claimed from each other. Reeks to high heaven. In retrospect someone watching should have picked up on that.

As for Alhattab, thank you. I had one person ask me what family or part of the Middle East I was from (I can’t recall which), and this was on a racing board somewhere! (it might have been the old Dan Illman FormBlog).

[Scanman]

Originally Posted by Gamblin4ever

In regards to handle, MP lost the gamblers who are against the no whip rule. If no major incidents involving the no whip rule, I can see other tracks following behind MP. I don't gamble on MP due to the fact of not winning enough compared to other tracks. I am against Drazin and MP for welcoming Baffert to race even with his suspension looming.

I'm sure you are right. Though, I still believe it's too early to tell. Like you, I seldomly would bet a MP race. Most of my play is on UK/Irish and Australian racing, where I have carved out my niche.

I found the "no whip" experiment interesting and worth a try. I felt the same way so many years ago with synthetic tracks. By in large, they have worked out. Some like them and some don't. Some won't play them and some play them exclusively because they worked out an angle that made them successful. In time, I think the same will be true with tracks that don't allow whipping, provided this inititive prevails.

I am ambivalent concerning Baffert. He deserves his "due process" and maybe some believe he's already had it concerning his past medication violations. In reality, I don't think you'll see him enter many there, less the Haskell.

[MonmouthParkJoe]

Curious to see what jocks will ride on Haskell day, and if the "boycott" holds up when you have a race like that for $1 million.

Or will connections wait two weeks for the Jim Dandy (albeit at $600k) to have their jocks ride.

Racing related controversies aside, Monmouth Park is far from a dump, and is in fact one of my favorite tracks in the country.

Saratoga is my clear cut favorite (maybe I should change my tag to SaratogaJoe, but Monmouth is number 2.

Having been to all the major tracks in the country, and some lower level (Freehold, the Afternoon Delight!), I appreciate them all.