Illinois Casino bill......tracks get slots

[zico20]

Originally Posted by cj

At this point I think it is pretty clear better purses don't help the product. It is very possible they have the opposite effect.

Not when you are talking about Fairmount Park. The quality of racing can't get any lower right now. They run two days a week, seven races with field sizes averaging six horses. Fairmount was as good as gone if they didn't get slots and sports betting. The quality will greatly improve next year. Thank God, I still like to go to the track on occasion and watch live racing.

[exactatom]

The quality of racing at Fairmount Park has to do with the management. They do ZERO to make a horseplayer want to return there. I have asked the following questions over the years to management/employees there?

1. Why do they charge betters to come bet the simulcast? I further stated that I lived in Lexington and could go to Keeneland and bet simulcast free of charge and they want to charge you $2 to get in the door. Why is that?

2. Why don't you make an effort to upkeep the facility? I went as far as to tell them that if you buy the paint, I would volunteer to paint the toteboard. It looks like it has not been touched in 20 years. For years a fixture was a man selling candy bars on a table in the men's room.

3. Why is the emphasis on selling cheap beer instead of drawing people to watch the racing? Miller Lite Beach Bikini party instead of focusing on actually having 8 horses in a field.

4. Why with a facility at the intersection of interstates do you do more to promote and make the facility a place people would actually want to visit?

5. Why is your GM a former harness guy who only got the job as his employment was a requirement to have the harness license surrendered so thoroughbred racing could expand dates?

6. Why do you not have any kind of rewards club for betters? Nothing like the few free meals you give away being to people who wager on their phones instead of through the windows.

7. When you had a local attorney spend his own money to put up the pursed that attracted a horse that ran in the Kentucky Derby, you never continued this for more than one year, why?

These guys have not cared about the product for years. They kept the place on life support waiting for the time they got gambling so they could divert the additional funds from the horsemen.

If you want to improve the quality of racing, then it starts at the top. The owner ran Ralston Purina and surely he knows how to run a company well.

My two cents from a guy who has went there for the last 35 years.

[cj]

Originally Posted by zico20

Not when you are talking about Fairmount Park. The quality of racing can't get any lower right now. They run two days a week, seven races with field sizes averaging six horses. Fairmount was as good as gone if they didn't get slots and sports betting. The quality will greatly improve next year. Thank God, I still like to go to the track on occasion and watch live racing.

I hope for your sake you are right. All I can say is we'll see.

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by JeremyJet

Racing has been on life support for a long long time around here. Let's hope Arlington, Hawthorne and Fairmount can get together and formulate a plan going forward that will strengthen the thoroughbred product in the state.

I'm a thoroughbred guy, but I hope this is good for the harness side as well. They should rebuild Sportsman's Park. 🤔

Sportsman's Park will not be rebuilt. That land is now occupied by a beverage distribution company (Alcoholic) However, there is a section in the bill authorizing a new harness track in the south suburbs of Cook County; most likely near Tinley Park.

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by cj

At this point I think it is pretty clear better purses don't help the product. It is very possible they have the opposite effect.

Has someone hacked your account? You don't make dumb statements. Belmont and Saratoga in New York; Churchill Downs in Kentucky; Santa Anita and Del Mar in California. Those tracks have the highest purses and those tracks have the best racing. The best barns with the best horses come to where they can make the most money.

[cj]

Originally Posted by mostpost

Has someone hacked your account? You don't make dumb statements. Belmont and Saratoga in New York; Churchill Downs in Kentucky; Santa Anita and Del Mar in California. Those tracks have the highest purses and those tracks have the best racing. The best barns with the best horses come to where they can make the most money.

Sure, the big purses help the local horsemen, but they don't really help the product for gamblers. That is what I was talking about. I should have been more clear. Horses race less when the purses are big, fields shrink, etc.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by mostpost

Has someone hacked your account? You don't make dumb statements. Belmont and Saratoga in New York; Churchill Downs in Kentucky; Santa Anita and Del Mar in California. Those tracks have the highest purses and those tracks have the best racing. The best barns with the best horses come to where they can make the most money.

You're right CJ does not make dumb statements. The advent of slots subsidizing purses was in the mid 1990s (I believe Delaware Park was one of the first). According to the Jockeys Club, US t'bred handle was $11.3 billion in 2018, DOWN from $11.6 billion in 1996. Did all that slots money fuel handle?

On a micro level, please examine the handle-to-purse ratios of tracks with slots (PRX is a good place to start). Trace that ratio over time. What's the trend? Which tracks have the lowest ratios?

I'm not even sure why you listed those tracks? They were all built over time on the backs of horse bettors, not slots subsidies. I think AP could potentially prosper from higher purses, but second and third-tier tracks? Not likely, imo.

[The_Turf_Monster]

Originally Posted by cj

Sure, the big purses help the local horsemen, but they don't really help the product for gamblers. That is what I was talking about. I should have been more clear. Horses race less when the purses are big, fields shrink, etc.

Eh the impact on Maryland racing begs to differ. Slots purses coupled with strong incentives to breed and race in state will increase field size. That bonus for MD-breds for winning keeps horses in state and brings the MD-breds back to Maryland at the highest and lowest levels. Intelligent carding of races will fix any detriment that slots could impact

[cj]

Originally Posted by The_Turf_Monster

Eh the impact on Maryland racing begs to differ. Slots purses coupled with strong incentives to breed and race in state will increase field size. That bonus for MD-breds for winning keeps horses in state and brings the MD-breds back to Maryland at the highest and lowest levels. Intelligent carding of races will fix any detriment that slots could impact

Sure, but how did Maryland get in the spot it was in to begin with? Slots at DEL and CT which cannibalized Maryland racing.

[The_Turf_Monster]

Originally Posted by cj

Sure, but how did Maryland get in the spot it was in to begin with? Slots at DEL and CT which cannibalized Maryland racing.

Totally agree, but MD is doing more to overcome it that any other state. Illinois got itself in the position where it was losing racing and casino dollars to its neighboring states

[JustRalph]

A short distance from my business is a Casino bus station. Never saw one before. It holds about 20 buses (I’m told) and every morning you show up and pay a fare to ride to one of 12 Casino locations in Louisiana and Oklahoma. None in Texas. I always thought it was a regular bus station.

Sam Houston Race park is 20 minutes away from this place. Yet.....nah baby nah!

[cj]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

A short distance from my business is a Casino bus station. Never saw one before. It holds about 20 buses (I’m told) and every morning you show up and pay a fare to ride to one of 12 Casino locations in Louisiana and Oklahoma. None in Texas. I always thought it was a regular bus station.

Sam Houston Race park is 20 minutes away from this place. Yet.....nah baby nah!

If Texas ever legalizes gambling WinStar will shut down within months. The parking lot is nothing but Texas license plates. The place is gigantic.

https://www.winstar.com/

[Afleet]

Originally Posted by zico20

Not when you are talking about Fairmount Park. The quality of racing can't get any lower right now. They run two days a week, seven races with field sizes averaging six horses. Fairmount was as good as gone if they didn't get slots and sports betting. The quality will greatly improve next year. Thank God, I still like to go to the track on occasion and watch live racing.

Hope things improve there-been a few times-I like those old beat up tracks. Felt insulted when they would take money from your winning tickets even though overall I was losing. Vowed never to go back and haven't.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by cj

Sure, but how did Maryland get in the spot it was in to begin with? Slots at DEL and CT which cannibalized Maryland racing.

Now that MD and PA have slots, how is Delaware Park doing? How many times will they cancel this year due to a lack of horses? When you subsidize something, you get more supply than the market demands. Mid-Atlantic racing is Econ 101. Wait until Colonial opens (very attractive purses vs. the past).

Not sure how anyone can argue with you on this point, except on the margin. I do think a strong product (e.g., Saratoga) can benefit from a purse subsidy. And I suspect AP could turn into a Midwest center for high quality racing, but at the cost of second-tier tracks.