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Old 11-04-2010, 09:07 PM   #16
rwwupl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andymays
That's what I'm looking for. Check your email.


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As I said earlier I'm all for a boycott of California but I have to tell you when we have those two making a blanket statement about punishing California while Woodbine flat out robs people is a little out of line. Just a little. I waited a couple of days before I put this thread up because I figured someone from the board would address it with a thread or on the blog. Instead I see accolades for a track instituting a 15% take pick 4. Hmmmmmmm, the 10% take pick 4 in California was no good. How exactly does this work?





Thanks,

Andy
Andy,


Those are good questions. I am glad HANA will put out something on some unfairness in other peoples back yard.

Hmmm.. I wonder what the "rebate" schedule is? It must be pretty good for some with those rates.

We need to look after all horseplayers, not just the few.

Lets clean out those who are the problem and creating this mess, but lets do not blanket punish everyone associated with the racing circuit.

California employs 50-55,000 people... they all do not need the lesson of "Punishment" or be put out of work.
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Old 11-04-2010, 09:10 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by rwwupl
California employs 50-55,000 people... they all do not need the lesson of "Punishment" or be put out of work.
That is pretty lame to put that on bettors.
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Old 11-04-2010, 09:13 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by cj
That is pretty lame to put that on bettors.
I agree that it's not the bettors responsibility. I would like to see anyone leading a boycott to be specific about who they are punishing and identify the people and the organizations causing the takeout increase.

I'd just like to see the same outrage by some HANA board members with Woodbine as I see with California.

It is my understanding that they are putting something up on the blog about it as we speak.

Last edited by andymays; 11-04-2010 at 09:15 PM.
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Old 11-04-2010, 09:22 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by cj
That is pretty lame to put that on bettors.
Considering that a raise in take will cost them jobs in the long-run, it can be argued that horseplayers actually want to protect those jobs.

I am pretty sure there were more than 50k people employed in CA before their last takeout hike.
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Old 11-04-2010, 09:28 PM   #20
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http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/

Excerpt:

Rather than just call attention to this in a write up, we at HANA would ask you to let track management at Woodbine know how you feel.

Why not take the time to write them an email - or better yet an old fashioned letter - voicing your thoughts? Phoning them is also an option.

Woodbine’s contact info is shown below:

Woodbine Entertainment Group
P.O. Box 156, 555 Rexdale Boulevard
Toronto, Ontario, M9W 5L2
Telephone: (416) 675-7223 (RACE)
Toll Free: 1-888-675-7223 (RACE)
Internet Comment Page: http://www.woodbineentertainment.com...AQuestion.aspx


Jeff Platt
President, HANA

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Email sent.

Last edited by andymays; 11-04-2010 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 11-04-2010, 10:01 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andymays
http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/

Excerpt:

Rather than just call attention to this in a write up, we at HANA would ask you to let track management at Woodbine know how you feel.

Why not take the time to write them an email - or better yet an old fashioned letter - voicing your thoughts? Phoning them is also an option.

Woodbine’s contact info is shown below:

Woodbine Entertainment Group
P.O. Box 156, 555 Rexdale Boulevard


Toronto, Ontario, M9W 5L2
Telephone: (416) 675-7223 (RACE)
Toll Free: 1-888-675-7223 (RACE)
Internet Comment Page: http://www.woodbineentertainment.com...AQuestion.aspx


Jeff Platt
President, HANA

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Email sent.

Complete by Roger...
Phone call to Woodbine, recorded by "Peggy" for whoever is in charge.

"Your takeout is too damn high", with name and return number, etc.
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Old 11-04-2010, 10:06 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanT
Considering that a raise in take will cost them jobs in the long-run, it can be argued that horseplayers actually want to protect those jobs.

I am pretty sure there were more than 50k people employed in CA before their last takeout hike.
This is true. I would also argue that a lot of those 50k aren't needed and are part of the problem.
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Old 11-04-2010, 10:08 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Greyfox
The fact is that every ticket buyer is paying a small federal tax upon purchase.
That tax is part of the takeout. But if he wins $ 20,000 the money is his.
Isn't this the case in most jurisdictions?

The mandatory deductions on money bet at Ontario tracks is part of the takeout:

Horsepeople receive a further 2% on all wagers except 4% on triactor wagering.

The Ontario Provincial Government retains 0.5% on all bets placed in Ontario.

The Canadian Government (through a revolving fund cost recovery basis) retains 0.8% on all wagers placed in Canada for provision of drug control, photo-finish, video patrol and audit services.

Woodbine is actually looking at getting rid of the Horsepeople deduction which should lead to a healthy takeout reduction if they can pull it off. The plan is to have slots money replace it.
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Old 11-04-2010, 10:37 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Horseplayersbet.com
The Canadian Government (through a revolving fund cost recovery basis) retains 0.8% on all wagers placed in Canada for provision of drug control, photo-finish, video patrol and audit services.

.
Right. That's what I said. But you've added flesh with the specifics that I didn't have. The Canadian Government takes a small percentage of every wager and they do not take away any of your winnings if you win.
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Old 11-04-2010, 10:43 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Greyfox
Right. That's what I said. But you've added flesh with the specifics that I didn't have. The Canadian Government takes a small percentage of every wager and they do not take away any of your winnings if you win.
The fact Canada doesn't tax gambling winnings is no justification for high takeout rates or what is going on in this specific case.
The laws were in place when there was only exactor, double and WPS betting and the blended takeout rate was less than 17 or 18%.
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Old 11-04-2010, 10:57 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Horseplayersbet.com
The fact Canada doesn't tax gambling winnings is no justification for high takeout rates or what is going on in this specific case.
.
Agreed. They are too high all right. I note though that the original post was referring to the trifecta - 27 % in Canada, 19 % in the U.S (according to post 1).
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Old 11-04-2010, 11:02 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by andymays

I'd just like to see the same outrage by some HANA board members with Woodbine as I see with California.
Woodbine's takeout situation - although dispicable - is an isolated incident involving only the Breeders Cup, Andy...whereas the California takeout increase will continue forever - or until they decide to raise it again in the future. How are the two cases even remotely related?

Did the Woodbine Racing Board commissioners publicly declare that they are really in the entertainment business and NOT the gambling business, and that they should not be concerned with the fact that their product is grossly overpriced when compared to other forms of gambling?

When they were asked for a reason for the takeout increase...did the Woodbine Racing Board commissioners futher infuriate their already pissed-off customers by declaring that their product was "the premier racing product in the country"...and that they were raising their prices because they were - up to the present time - "offering their first-class product at a discount price"?

Wasn't it you who stated to me awhile ago that you have participated in more than a few meetings with these CHRB "bigshots", and that the minute the conversation turns to us horseplayers and our needs and complaints...words like "addicts" and "losers" are blurted out?

Why are we even concerning ourselves with the Woodbine situation...have we run out of things to complain about in OUR country?

Need I remind you (or HANA) that the WIN takeout at Turf Paradise is 20%, or that the trifecta and superfecta takeout in Philly Park is still 30%+...even with a booming slot trade?

Last edited by thaskalos; 11-04-2010 at 11:10 PM.
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Old 11-04-2010, 11:06 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by andymays
Where's the Outrage over Woodbines treatment of Canadian Horseplayers?
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Originally Posted by InsideThePylons-MW
Any horseplayer with an ounce of pride or dignity that is educated in the ways of Woodbine and the people who are in charge of it would have to take a hot shower for at least an hour to wash all the filthy slime off if they made a bet on their product.
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...ine#post797149

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Originally Posted by InsideThePylons-MW
Exactly!

Lower the take 1.3% on Wdb

Raise the take 2% (for a total of up to 7%) on all NA simulcast signals.

Sickening!
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...ine#post701331

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Originally Posted by InsideThePylons-MW
Woodbine.....

High takeout

They stick a gun in their core customers side when robbing them on their simulcast takeout rates

Basically....Woodbine makes almost every bettor....1. Alter their play as to avoid exotics......2. Feel like they were robbed when betting simulcasts... 5. feel like they are a necessary evil and not valued when they can't just bet and feel good about betting there.
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...ine#post796340
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Old 11-05-2010, 01:08 AM   #29
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I could write about 14 pages here about how woodbine and ft erie thru hpibet are screwing us here....Instead, I'll just say our small group of regulars will be playing the two day breeders at presque isle in pa. The woodbine f***ers drive us out of our own country.
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Old 11-05-2010, 02:43 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by andymays
Charlie, where are our two Canadian friends from the HANA board? You know the guys that are into punishing all of California while they ignore the problems in their own backyard. That's a little strange isn't it? Hmmmmmmm
There's nothing strange about it. No Canadian has to bet through Woodbine's HPI service. Even the casually informed know there are plenty of other superior options like PTC.

For over two years, I was in favor of boycotting Woodbine due to their extreme anti-rebate stance but things have gotten a lot better this year now that their former CEO David Willmot has retired.

The effective takeout on Woodbine races has been slashed this year, while California's is about to go up again. This is why your state is currently the number one enemy of horseplayers.
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