Jocks who "move out of the way" - Page 3 - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

chadk66 · 11-13-2013, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McSchell_Racing

Well in the old days when a jock told you to move over,They were told to go around,If you cant get around then sit chilly,These jocks that open up holes for others to go thu are just plain chickenshit and should not be riding.Never mind a future favor,Do you think the guy who you let thu last time will let you beat him if he has the horse.A smart rider will read the form and know where his horse may be during the race,.Dead horses on the rail should hold their position and make the field go around,.Letting them drift can cause some serious issues with the rest of the field.JMO

yea things aren't what they used to be. and this varies from jock colony to jock colony. it just is what it is.

brivolta · 11-14-2013, 11:43 AM

Jockeys do this for each other all the time and it has nothing to do with collusion or fixing races. Jockeys know when they are out of horse and if another jockey is coming up the rail with a lot of horse they'll usually say something and often times the jockey lets them through.

Most jockeys know when they have enough horse left and in those cases they will always "race ride". But if they know they're beat, often times they'll move over a path to let someone through. Any of you that are owners or trainers and have access to watching races from somewhere near the turn have heard it countless times. These guys talk to each other all the time during a race. Often times it's for their own safety.

I had a mare running last week who was a length in front after a quarter mile. A horse in the race lost its rider at the break went flying by her and my jock had to check with my mare. After the race I asked how close the horse got and he said it wasn't that she got close, he just didn't expect it because nobody said anything and usually everyone is yelling "loose horse". These guys are competitors and have balls of steel. But they also have to look out for their own safety, as well as the safety of those around them.

mountainman · 11-14-2013, 12:30 PM

It can't be prevented. But it's collusion. Players should not BE at the whims of whatever personal relationships exist between riders.

Requiring conspiracy and having more effect on the outcome, PACE collusion would make a better topic.

Stillriledup · 12-01-2013, 04:51 PM

Good God, do you think Barrington Harvey could have made it any easier for Russell Baze on the overbet crud chalk to win the 3rd race at GG (Dec 1).

This stuff is why racing is a dying game, people see this stuff and it looks really bad, to the novice, it looks like the guy just moved out of the way to let his pal win the race.

Phantombridgejumpe · 12-01-2013, 07:26 PM

Years ago he rode the 3rd at Philly Park (not Parx yet) and was serving hot dogs and fries and the food stand before the 5th.

I think he was like 3/115 that year. I don't have many riders on my do not bet list, he is right on top. PS: he seemed like a nice enough guy, just a terrible jock.

PaceAdvantage · 12-01-2013, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

This stuff is why racing is a dying game, people see this stuff and it looks really bad, to the novice, it looks like the guy just moved out of the way to let his pal win the race.

How would a novice know they were pals?

Stillriledup · 12-01-2013, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

How would a novice know they were pals?

He wouldnt. Neither would a non-novice. Im talking about the perception and you know, perception is pretty important in the racing game, people have to believe the races are on the up and up or they're not betting or becoming a fan.

If i took a novice to the track and they asked me "why did that guy move out of the way and part the red sea for the other guy" how am i supposed to answer that?

PaceAdvantage · 12-01-2013, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

If i took a novice to the track and they asked me "why did that guy move out of the way and part the red sea for the other guy" how am i supposed to answer that?

Tell him that's what happens when a 100 pound man tries to control a 1000 pound animal with a couple of straps of leather.

You act as if everything is scripted and nothing chaotic happens during a race.

I guess it would be best if the jock in question makes sure he shuts off whomever is coming and risks a disastrous accident instead of moving his tired horse out of the way...

We can slice this multiple ways. It all doesn't end up on the road to chicanery.

Stillriledup · 12-01-2013, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Tell him that's what happens when a 100 pound man tries to control a 1000 pound animal with a couple of straps of leather.

You act as if everything is scripted and nothing chaotic happens during a race.

I guess it would be best if the jock in question makes sure he shuts off whomever is coming and risks a disastrous accident instead of moving his tired horse out of the way...

We can slice this multiple ways. It all doesn't end up on the road to chicanery.

I'm no geometry expert, but i know the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. If you can figure out why the guy thought losing ground on the turn was going to get him to the wire faster, let us in on it!

Why are we bring up a disasterous accident, what does this have to do with anything related to this thread?

andtheyreoff · 12-01-2013, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

I'm no geometry expert, but i know the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. If you can figure out why the guy thought losing ground on the turn was going to get him to the wire faster, let us in on it!

Why are we bring up a disastrous accident, what does this have to do with anything related to this thread?

Because if he knows his horse is tired and isn't going to win, he might as well get out of the way so he's not gonna interfere with anyone else.

In the case of the Golden Gate race, Harvey's horse was a big longshot (99/1) and had been hustled to a fast opening quarter. She was already starting to throw in the towel around the turn, so there's no harm in wrapping up on your horse and letting a guy go through on the rail, as opposed to taking the chance the horse behind you will clip heels.

Stillriledup · 12-01-2013, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andtheyreoff

Because if he knows his horse is tired and isn't going to win, he might as well get out of the way so he's not gonna interfere with anyone else.

In the case of the Golden Gate race, Harvey's horse was a big longshot (99/1) and had been hustled to a fast opening quarter. She was already starting to throw in the towel around the turn, so there's no harm in wrapping up on your horse and letting a guy go through on the rail, as opposed to taking the chance the horse behind you will clip heels.

I know what you're saying, i'm not suggesting the guy try and cause an accident, i'm just saying he should stay in his path, plenty of horses get to the front end and tire, but not all of them move out of the way, they just stay in their lane. It might be more dangerous changing lanes than staying in your own lane.

thespaah · 12-01-2013, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

I know what you're saying, i'm not suggesting the guy try and cause an accident, i'm just saying he should stay in his path, plenty of horses get to the front end and tire, but not all of them move out of the way, they just stay in their lane. It might be more dangerous changing lanes than staying in your own lane.

As much as your mind sees one, there is no conspiracy here.
A jock riding a tired horse hears another rider yelling "coming through" is going to get out of the way. Period.
It's a safety issue as well as an issue of what I call 'courtesy in competition'..
You'd have a valid argument if the rider moved over when his or her horse was in contention for a placing.

Stillriledup · 12-01-2013, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thespaah

As much as your mind sees one, there is no conspiracy here.
A jock riding a tired horse hears another rider yelling "coming through" is going to get out of the way. Period.
It's a safety issue as well as an issue of what I call 'courtesy in competition'..
You'd have a valid argument if the rider moved over when his or her horse was in contention for a placing.

So all the guys who moved out of the way for Calvin in those Ky Derbies were showing him courtesy? Or, maybe was yelling "move over, coming thru"?

Stillriledup · 12-01-2013, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thespaah

As much as your mind sees one, there is no conspiracy here.
A jock riding a tired horse hears another rider yelling "coming through" is going to get out of the way. Period.
It's a safety issue as well as an issue of what I call 'courtesy in competition'..
You'd have a valid argument if the rider moved over when his or her horse was in contention for a placing.

I've seen plenty of jocks move out of the way and then lose to only the horse they moved over for. Happens all the time when a jock will be on the lead, let the winner up the rail and cost themselves a placing.

Mineshaft · 12-02-2013, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

I've seen plenty of jocks move out of the way and then lose to only the horse they moved over for. Happens all the time when a jock will be on the lead, let the winner up the rail and cost themselves a placing.

You are grasping.......