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Old 09-08-2020, 05:32 PM   #61
dilanesp
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IMO, this is a key point. If Baffert is stealing from other trainers and powerful ownerships groups then how come no one dropped a dime on him?

Probably because a lot of them have their skeletons.
It has to be this. It's never one isolated cheater. Once you think someone else is cheating, you have to cheat too.
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Old 09-08-2020, 05:41 PM   #62
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Look at what just happened with Navaro and Servis. Look at how many people were involved. This was a group that was looking for and using illegal and undetectable drugs. The report or study that kicked this off found that there were probably multiple organizations doing this in horse racing.

The chances are, that every major track has one or two people doing this.
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Old 09-09-2020, 09:25 AM   #63
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Probably because a lot of them have their skeletons.
Sounds like a variation of Washington DC.
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Old 09-10-2020, 11:37 AM   #64
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Horseracing Integrity and Safety Act was just introduced into the Senate, has passed committee in Congress. Hopefully, it can make a difference re cheaters.
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Old 09-10-2020, 11:49 AM   #65
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Sounds like a variation of Washington DC.
I was going to say the Tour de France. The guys they gave the titles to were just as dirty as Lance.
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Old 09-10-2020, 01:54 PM   #66
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I was going to say the Tour de France. The guys they gave the titles to were just as dirty as Lance.
Of course they were! And the supposedly "clean" baseball players of the steroid era weren't clean- they didn't get caught, but everyone used them.

My favorite anecdote is this one- a few years ago, ESPN went back and re-investigated the 1988 Olympic 100 meters, the famous race where Ben Johnson got disqualified for steroid use. There were 9 people on that starting line. Eight of them ended up having credible PED allegations against them in the ensuing years, including the eventual winner by disqualification, Carl Lewis. Johnson's just the one guy who took the dope at the wrong time and failed the test.
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Old 09-10-2020, 02:22 PM   #67
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I don't think it's healthy for the industry when a handful of trainers are getting all the best horses (dirt or turf). It makes it harder for other trainers and jockeys to make a very good living and gamblers are disadvantaged because the trainers are spotting their horses in ways to avoid competition against themselves when possible. That makes for fewer betting opportunities.

The bigger problem is the potential for politics or collusion when it comes to the way races are run, penalties for drugs, and DQs,

Who wants to DQ a horse trained by one of those trainers when he can pack his bags and go somewhere else and really damage your stakes program?

Who wants to suspend him?

Baffert had another horse this weekend that demolished a main competitor at the start of a race that wasn't taken down. Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me a dozen times and I'm calling bullshit. Things happen at the start of races all the time. That's especially true of 2yos. But imho the list of Baffert horses that have wiped out competitors at the start, seemed to be running interference in the early part of the race for another Baffert horse, or floated a competitor wide to help another Baffert horse is too long for this to all be an accident.
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Old 09-10-2020, 02:48 PM   #68
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I don't think it's healthy for the industry when a handful of trainers are getting all the best horses (dirt or turf). It makes it harder for other trainers and jockeys to make a very good living and gamblers are disadvantaged because the trainers are spotting their horses in ways to avoid competition against themselves when possible. That makes for fewer betting opportunities.

The bigger problem is the potential for politics or collusion when it comes to the way races are run, penalties for drugs, and DQs,

Who wants to DQ a horse trained by one of those trainers when he can pack his bags and go somewhere else and really damage your stakes program?

Who wants to suspend him?

Baffert had another horse this weekend that demolished a main competitor at the start of a race that wasn't taken down. Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me a dozen times and I'm calling bullshit. Things happen at the start of races all the time. That's especially true of 2yos. But imho the list of Baffert horses that have wiped out competitors at the start, seemed to be running interference in the early part of the race for another Baffert horse, or floated a competitor wide to help another Baffert horse is too long for this to all be an accident.
One truly great thing about Justify's TC story is it combines getting a pass on doping and taking out another horse in a race.
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Old 09-10-2020, 03:50 PM   #69
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another horse this weekend that demolished a main competitor at the start of a race that wasn't taken down. Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me a dozen times and I'm calling bullshit. Things happen at the start of races all the time. That's especially true of 2yos....
....horses that have wiped out competitors at the start, seemed to be running interference in the early part of the race..., or floated a competitor wide to help another ... horse is too long for this to all be an accident.
TLDR: "I don't know."

Either the race-riding, has been more competitive lately, or I've studied it in more focus lately.

With the break, and race-riding, and herding.... - there seems to me, a complex and difficult problem to solve or enforce.

Beyond my circle of competence.

Does seem to be room for improvement. Perhaps other jurisdictions have used more successful approaches, or some innovation to the rules is needed.

Horses are wild animals... Especially 2yos etc... You hit a horse right handed, and if he's a type to lug in, he may respond to foul an inside horse...
the herding, the Gate...

in any given isolated incident, I can give the jockey the benefit of the doubt. "Hanlon's Razor" , etc...

but in a perfect world, we'd place a greater responsibility to hold your path, and we'd have real warnings/fines/'Days'-during-$Cards(not vacations during cheap or off meets)...

It's something that I do not know the answer to.
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Old 09-10-2020, 05:29 PM   #70
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I don't think it's healthy for the industry when a handful of trainers are getting all the best horses (dirt or turf). It makes it harder for other trainers and jockeys to make a very good living and gamblers are disadvantaged because the trainers are spotting their horses in ways to avoid competition against themselves when possible. That makes for fewer betting opportunities.

The bigger problem is the potential for politics or collusion when it comes to the way races are run, penalties for drugs, and DQs,

Who wants to DQ a horse trained by one of those trainers when he can pack his bags and go somewhere else and really damage your stakes program?

Who wants to suspend him?

Baffert had another horse this weekend that demolished a main competitor at the start of a race that wasn't taken down. Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me a dozen times and I'm calling bullshit. Things happen at the start of races all the time. That's especially true of 2yos. But imho the list of Baffert horses that have wiped out competitors at the start, seemed to be running interference in the early part of the race for another Baffert horse, or floated a competitor wide to help another Baffert horse is too long for this to all be an accident.
Agreed
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Old 09-10-2020, 05:53 PM   #71
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..

Baffert had another horse this weekend that demolished a main competitor at the start of a race that wasn't taken down. .
?
My Girl Red- DNF.
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Old 09-10-2020, 07:38 PM   #72
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Look at what just happened with Navaro and Servis. Look at how many people were involved.
Look how long it was going on before they nabbed 'em.

But again, Navarro and Servis aren't as famous as Baffert.

Like I said, you take Baffert out like this, the sheer PR would kill racing. This is the "too big to fail" deal.

And that is precisely why it won't happen.
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Old 09-10-2020, 08:06 PM   #73
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and by the way, i knew he ran with those things on most of the year, but he had already lost on the Churchill Downs surface. he is not at his best on that oval with front glue on's.
In what way(s) would glue on shoes as opposed to normally fastened shoes adversely affect a horse's performance?
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Old 09-10-2020, 08:12 PM   #74
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Authentic was working up a strom - 6F, 1m, 6F, 6F,5F, all sine Aug 8.

His 101 Beyer tied the BEST fig any of the horse in the Woodward had ever run. And it came in the midst of a grinding forward figure pattern.

No surprise he won.
I used him in the Supers but not my top 4 exacta box. Post position was my concern.

Top four Beyers were 109 102 101 101.
LOng ago, an "old sage" advised me to look at the published workouts. His angle was to include horses in his bets that appeared to be ready to race to their works.
Obviously, Authentic did just that.
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Old 09-10-2020, 08:31 PM   #75
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Horseracing Integrity and Safety Act was just introduced into the Senate, has passed committee in Congress.

Do a legislative history on this, thru govtrack.us

May 26, 1982, Senate's Judiciary Committee, Corrupt Horse Racing Practices Act,bill sponsored by Arkansas Sen. David Pryor. The meeting was chaired by Maryland's Charles “Mac” Mathias. S-1043
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?...view=1up&seq=1

H.R. 1733 (112th): Interstate Horseracing Improvement Act of 2011To amend the Interstate Horseracing Act of 1978 to prohibit the use of performance-enhancing drugs in horseracing.
("Died in a previous Congress: This bill was introduced on May 4, 2011, in a previous session of Congress, but it did not receive a vote."..."This bill was introduced in the 112th Congress, which met from Jan 5, 2011 to Jan 3, 2013. Legislation not enacted by the end of a Congress is cleared from the books."

MAY 16, 2013 H. R. 2012
To improve the integrity and safety of interstate horseracing.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled.....This Act may be cited as the ‘‘Horseracing Integrity and Safety Act of 2013’’.

JUNE 3, 2015 --H. R. 2641 -- This Act may be cited as the ‘‘Horseracing Integrity and Safety Act of 2015’’

July 16, 2015
Congressman Andy Barr (R-KY) and Congressman Paul Tonko (D-NY), the co-chairmen of the Congressional Horse Caucus, introduced the bipartisan Thoroughbred Horseracing Integrity Act of 2015.

MAY 25, 2017 H. R. 2651, This Act may be cited as the ‘‘Horseracing Integrity Act of 2017.

March 14, 2019 H.R.1754 — 116th Congress (2019-2020) Introduced in House; Horseracing Integrity Act of 2019, Sponsor: Rep. Tonko, Paul [D-NY-20] Committees: House - Energy and Commerce

Sept. 9, 2020 S.4547 — 116th Congress (2019-2020)
Sponsor: Sen. McConnell, Mitch [R-KY]
Committees: Senate - Commerce, Science, and Transportation


I guess this is what they mean when they talk about "the wheels moving slowly". I am not going to get my hopes up given how many times this has been introduced, with different Bill numbers and small changes, etc. until I see the next summary and something is still alive afterwards.
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