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Old 08-23-2021, 07:01 AM   #31
rastajenk
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Which astronaut?





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Old 08-23-2021, 09:44 AM   #32
Andy Asaro
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Originally Posted by v j stauffer View Post
Management preference.
I can understand a track that thinks a live format tournament could take away from their handle but a pick and pray really doesn't. A pick and pray would add to handle IMO. Maybe nobody has made that case to the tracks that don't want to participate in those tournaments???
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Old 08-23-2021, 10:30 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Speed Figure View Post

Major props Vic! one question! why is Oaklawn not available on horse tourneys?
Vic noted "management preference" - but in this case it's tied more to CDI/Twin Spires management preference. Oaklawn is owned and managed by the Cella family, but the wagering agreement negotiations with other entities are handled by CDI/Twin Spires (at least for the next few years). This is one reason Oaklawn was no longer available in Las Vegas last season - the previous agreement had expired and Oaklawn became part of the CDI/Vegas impasse.

The Oaklawn Anywhere ADW and associated app (for Arkansas residents) are simply "skins" running on the TwinSpires back engine. (I'll also note that there are none of the TwinSpires-style promotions on Oaklawn Anywhere once you get past the signup bonus. So it gets treated like a poor step-sibling.)

Unless a) CDI/TwinSpires starts partnering with the online tournament world; or b) Oaklawn affiliates with a different pro-tournament wagering arm/ADW at the end of whatever current agreement they have with CDI/TwinSpires - there is little hope of Oaklawn appearing on the online tournament sites.

I love the Cella family's investment in the racing product - but I start twitching every time I think about Oaklawn having any kind of association with CDI.

Anybody wanna chip in to get a large framed photo montage of then and now photos of Hollywood Park, Calder, and soon, Arlington? We could gift it to Louis Cella to be hung in a prime spot in his office where he sees it every day as a reminder to BE CAREFUL!!!!!
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Old 08-23-2021, 12:05 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by v j stauffer View Post
Going into the last race my bankroll had shrunk from $11,700 to $1000. In any tournament the goal is to get into a cashing position. It must be played with that in mind and as though the bankroll is chips not dollars. My goal was to make sure each of the bets I made would return at least $10,000. I liked two horses equally in the race. MASTEROFFOXHOUNDS and ASTRONAUT. I have a good friend who in addition to being a good handicapper looks at things very differently from me. He really liked MASTER PIECE. At 22-1 he was the perfect fit for the scenario needed. So with the goal being any bet that hit exceeding $10,000 I bet $400 to win on ASTRONAUT and a $100 EX Box. MASTEROFFOXHOUNDS, MASTER PIECE AND ASTRONAUT. Tournament play is very very different than day to day play. Oh,one other piece of good advice. CHECK YOUR PLAYS. At three minutes to post have have trained myself to double check that I have punched in exactly what I want. When I did that last night I discovered I had used MEDIA BLITZ instead of MASTER PIECE. At the end of a long tournament mistakes are easy to make. I canceled the incorrect play and at two minutes to post put the proper numbers in. My best bet of the day was always Astronaut. Needless to say the plan was to go into his race with much more than $1000. But I couldn't have been more wrong in the 4 races leading up. I did know that if I kept $1000 for his race there were bets I could make to hit cashing position. Turns out I got very fortunate and the best possible outcome came across the wire.

Thanks for the excellent breakdown, and congratulations.
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Old 08-23-2021, 12:58 PM   #35
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Good Insight To The Real Skinny

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarchCapper View Post
Vic noted "management preference" - but in this case it's tied more to CDI/Twin Spires management preference. Oaklawn is owned and managed by the Cella family, but the wagering agreement negotiations with other entities are handled by CDI/Twin Spires (at least for the next few years). This is one reason Oaklawn was no longer available in Las Vegas last season - the previous agreement had expired and Oaklawn became part of the CDI/Vegas impasse.

The Oaklawn Anywhere ADW and associated app (for Arkansas residents) are simply "skins" running on the TwinSpires back engine. (I'll also note that there are none of the TwinSpires-style promotions on Oaklawn Anywhere once you get past the signup bonus. So it gets treated like a poor step-sibling.)

Unless a) CDI/TwinSpires starts partnering with the online tournament world; or b) Oaklawn affiliates with a different pro-tournament wagering arm/ADW at the end of whatever current agreement they have with CDI/TwinSpires - there is little hope of Oaklawn appearing on the online tournament sites.

I love the Cella family's investment in the racing product - but I start twitching every time I think about Oaklawn having any kind of association with CDI.

Anybody wanna chip in to get a large framed photo montage of then and now photos of Hollywood Park, Calder, and soon, Arlington? We could gift it to Louis Cella to be hung in a prime spot in his office where he sees it every day as a reminder to BE CAREFUL!!!!!
Nice informative post from someone who LIVES there....
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Old 08-23-2021, 02:26 PM   #36
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100% yes. In bankroll tournaments the first thing you MUST learn is to use your dollars and if they are chips in a poker tournament. Every combination I played in the last race was designed to get me into a payoff position or end up at $0.

Thanks for the congrats.
This makes sense.

One thing that you have in handicapping contests that you don't have in poker tournaments is the ability to play longshots.

I.e., I could imagine a handicapper having a strategy that "if I'm near the top, I'll concentrate my play in the last race on this 5 to 2 shot that I think has the best chance to win the race, but if I'm down lower and need to hit a big score to move up, I'll try to make something happen with this 25 to 1 shot who is an overlay".
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Old 08-23-2021, 02:26 PM   #37
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Vic, your's is a powerful and well known voice. Could we trouble you to pester the NTRA folks to make this year's spot on the calendar the official NHC dates for all future iterations too? The early year normal date is brutal. Many a player breaks off then, feeling it difficult to extract value from short fields/no turf/few 2yo & winterized dirt. My $0.02
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Old 08-23-2021, 05:17 PM   #38
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Doug Flutie

What a Hail Mary shot! 😆. The leader you leap frogged are contest veterans, did you see thier reaction? Or get their reaction?

Unbelievable. Epic win. Congratulations 👏.
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Old 08-23-2021, 05:29 PM   #39
v j stauffer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarchCapper View Post
Vic noted "management preference" - but in this case it's tied more to CDI/Twin Spires management preference. Oaklawn is owned and managed by the Cella family, but the wagering agreement negotiations with other entities are handled by CDI/Twin Spires (at least for the next few years). This is one reason Oaklawn was no longer available in Las Vegas last season - the previous agreement had expired and Oaklawn became part of the CDI/Vegas impasse.

The Oaklawn Anywhere ADW and associated app (for Arkansas residents) are simply "skins" running on the TwinSpires back engine. (I'll also note that there are none of the TwinSpires-style promotions on Oaklawn Anywhere once you get past the signup bonus. So it gets treated like a poor step-sibling.)

Unless a) CDI/TwinSpires starts partnering with the online tournament world; or b) Oaklawn affiliates with a different pro-tournament wagering arm/ADW at the end of whatever current agreement they have with CDI/TwinSpires - there is little hope of Oaklawn appearing on the online tournament sites.

I love the Cella family's investment in the racing product - but I start twitching every time I think about Oaklawn having any kind of association with CDI.

Anybody wanna chip in to get a large framed photo montage of then and now photos of Hollywood Park, Calder, and soon, Arlington? We could gift it to Louis Cella to be hung in a prime spot in his office where he sees it every day as a reminder to BE CAREFUL!!!!!
Now you know why I don't get involved.
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Old 08-23-2021, 05:46 PM   #40
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What a Hail Mary shot! ��. The leader you leap frogged are contest veterans, did you see thier reaction? Or get their reaction?

Unbelievable. Epic win. Congratulations ��.
Thanks Suff.

I was sitting in my office in Hot Springs.

Knew it was going to be a big move. Tina and I were speculating what the exacta was going to pay.

I was hoping for $200 to $250 which would have been $20 or $25k.

I knew the win bet was going to be $10,000.

Was extremely happy when I saw $458.00 on the exacta.

Was pretty sure that was going to get us home since the leader went into the final race with approx. $36k.

It wasn't a Hail Mary at all. The plan from the beginning was to get to the last with the biggest possible bankroll.

I knew on Thursday if Astronaut won the last I'd make the money.

It's VERY rare when your best bet is in the final race. But a great feeling and a huge edge when it is. Win, lose or draw.

I lost $10,700 in the 4 races before the last.

In retrospect that was real bad. Because we really could have put up an epic number.

Still very happy and grateful for a nice win.

Looking forward to improving my 7th place finish in last years BCBC.

IMO by far the BEST live bankroll tournament of the year!
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Last edited by v j stauffer; 08-23-2021 at 05:48 PM.
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Old 08-23-2021, 05:50 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by how cliche View Post
Vic, your's is a powerful and well known voice. Could we trouble you to pester the NTRA folks to make this year's spot on the calendar the official NHC dates for all future iterations too? The early year normal date is brutal. Many a player breaks off then, feeling it difficult to extract value from short fields/no turf/few 2yo & winterized dirt. My $0.02
Cliche

I do have people at the NTRA who I can speak to.

Please forgive me but I don't understand what you're asking me to ask them.

Please clarify.

Thanks

V J S
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Old 08-23-2021, 06:38 PM   #42
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Please request the tournament be held in late August every year. Why? The racing is better.
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Old 08-23-2021, 11:37 PM   #43
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Please request the tournament be held in late August every year. Why? The racing is better.
Ok. I'll pass on your opinion and request.
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Old 08-24-2021, 06:49 AM   #44
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Ok. I'll pass on your opinion and request.
Vegas in Summer is a bad idea.
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Old 08-24-2021, 09:47 AM   #45
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Vic,

Should we assume the core of your handicapping is Thorograph and then you add insights onto that?
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