Biden, 3 weeks tops........

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

We will see on all of this...

Polls (including Fox News) show the majority of Americans support Medicare4All in some form or another and Trump doesn't even have a plan...

I think most people are overreacting to how far "the left" really is right now. The only people who have staked out claims on the issues so far are Bernie and Warren. We are still months from debates and most candidates are still gauging where they are and fit in the electorate. Several are going to appear much more moderate along the way.

Booker, Harris, Beto, and Pete are some people with poll support that haven't carved out any positions beyond the point of easily consumable sound bites so far.

Biden hasn't either.

Remember at this point Donald Trump was still a couple of months away from announcing.

Its really early.

Oh, I agree it is early.

However, the biggest game right now is M4A. Every voter should be heavily interested on where this policy lands with any candidate.

This is a plan that will completely take away 180 million people's current health insurance they get through work and replace it with a far inferior product run by the government.

[TJDave]

I believe the democratic primaries will be driven by electability.

That’s Uncle Joe.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by TJDave

I believe the democratic primaries will be driven by electability.

That’s Uncle Joe.

For all the "socialism" talk I agree with this.

If you're a socialist; Warren, for instance, is a vastly superior candidate to Bernie... yet Bernie is romping the polls while she is struggling to gain traction.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker

Oh, I agree it is early.

However, the biggest game right now is M4A. Every voter should be heavily interested on where this policy lands with any candidate.

This is a plan that will completely take away 180 million people's current health insurance they get through work and replace it with a far inferior product run by the government.

Thing is though dude... by the dollar... Medicare is probably better insurance than 95% of that 180 million.

Its certainly better than the very competitive insurance my Banker fiance gets through her employer.

It all comes down to specifics and nobody aside from Warren and Bernie are talking about that right now.

[MargieRose]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

First off... if anyone thinks Obama is "far left" they are way off the reservation. It was a largely center left presidency.

Biden appeals to the White Working Class on issues like fair trade. Strong middle class labor rights. Tougher banking regulations.

Biden's entire brand is sticking up for the little guy... which translates straight to the Middle American (mostly White) working class.

What Biden doesn't care about is letting gays get married, planned parenthood, Confederate monuments, the bathrooms people use, or people seeking to immigrate here legally... those are culture war issues that Donald Trump has completely made the Republican Party about.

Donald Trump is not nearly as right-wing on the stuff Biden talks about when it comes to domestic economic policy... in fact... I would probably argue Biden is more conservative than Trump there... certainly on a few issues.

What proposals did Biden put forth in his video? He feels that he is the best one to compete against Trump, which may be true, but many thought the same about Hillary.

Talk is cheap among these candidates. Most all of what they are touting will never happen, nor will they even try to make it happen, as, at least, Trump has with his campaign promises. Neither will what Biden may tout ever come to fruition (if he ever gets around to spelling it out).

Should Biden win the election, I firmly believe that he will be run by Obama and by those who ran him...Obama, the most dangerous racist and anti-American in recent history.

Biden's silence regarding Omar is deafening!!

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Thing is though dude... by the dollar... Medicare is probably better insurance than 95% of that 180 million.

Its certainly better than the very competitive insurance my Banker fiance gets through her employer.

It all comes down to specifics and nobody aside from Warren and Bernie are talking about that right now.

You are asking the people that pay 95%+ of the taxes to pay more for a lesser product and longer wait times in the ER and doctor's offices.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker

You are asking the people that pay 95%+ of the taxes to pay more for a lesser product and longer wait times in the ER and doctor's offices.

If follow Warren's plan for instance (and no I don't support Warren's plan) you wouldn't be paying anything different for better coverage (Medicare is better than 95% of employer plans), but your trade off is higher taxes (Wealth tax on $50 Million and more).


Sure you will have longer wait times with doctors but currently we already have that... we have a shortage in health care already... supply/demand would (and currently is if you check the jobs reports) eventually sort that out.

[JustRalph]

Hopefully he can find a “clean” negro as a running mate

[baconswitchfarm]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I don't get Biden's appeal at all.

As crazy and incompetent as Bernie is, I can at least see his appeal because a large percentage of the left is utterly clueless on matters of economics and business. They'll vote for any lunatic that promises to give them tons of "free" stuff.

Biden is a "has been" than "never was".

He's a washed up loser that couldn't win the nomination at the peak of his attractiveness (and plagiarism). On top of that, he's a big time creep around women, teenage girls, and younger girls. He's so creepy and it's so documented even a guy like Trump will be able bring up his behavior and get the best of it because Biden's creepiness even exceeds Trumps.

The demographics and anti Trump passions are working heavily in favor of the democrats. If they put up a reasonably intelligent young moderate that understands business and economics, but just with more left leaning priorities and visions, they'd win in the greatest landslide ever.

If they put a demonic entity like Clinton, a corpse like Biden, or a clown like Sanders, they could actually blow this thing.

I'm going to give my 2 cents about Uncle Joe. Growing up in Delaware I've seen this show since birth. I played basketball against Beau Biden in high school. The thing to understand about Delaware is there are only three counties. Two working class counties with small populations. One large county with a population dominated by a left wing college town and a giant welfare city. Joe came down from Pennsylvania and has spent the rest of his career pretending to be from Delaware. In the 80's and previous both parties were represented fairly equally depending on each candidate. After that the college town , like most college towns, have seen their population explode. Likewise with our welfare kingdom. The Dupont business laws of the 80's keep corporate money coming in to pay for this city.

Joe Biden wins these areas because they vote for democrats. He never wins the white working class areas. Just like the 20 years he has been running for president he doesn't win primaries. His main accomplishment has been to make rich his family. I know that sounds untrue because the media loves to talk about how poor he has been.He has attended the most high brow events that occur for people who seek access. His children sat in desks right beside the Dupont children at the most exclusive Private school there is. Beau was trained to be a candidate. Top schools, fields to become politicians , and just enough military to prove he had some. His early death put all that to an end. All that is left is the Charlie sheen son. Lifetime screw up and the son that needs you to use your position to bail him out of trouble. But when that is all that's left that is what you use. Now rich beyond belief with foreign contracts with countries his father was doing business with as vp. Biden is just Hillary with a lot less ambition.

[woodtoo]

Sounds like you know Joe.

[xtb]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Sure you will have longer wait times with doctors but currently we already have that...

This sounds like something Yogi Berra would say.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

If follow Warren's plan for instance (and no I don't support Warren's plan) you wouldn't be paying anything different for better coverage (Medicare is better than 95% of employer plans), but your trade off is higher taxes (Wealth tax on $50 Million and more).


Sure you will have longer wait times with doctors but currently we already have that... we have a shortage in health care already... supply/demand would (and currently is if you check the jobs reports) eventually sort that out.

Bullshit.

Medicare is not better than 95% of employer plans. And it certainly won't be cheaper. $32 Trillion is the price tag for 10 years, and that is the estimates from the same crew that said Obamacare would lower people's monthly premiums.

You can do math, I'm sure. Our 2018 budget was $4.1 trillion with $3.65 Trillion in expected revenue for a debt of $440 billion that was actually nearly $800 billion. How the hell we fitting that BS estimate in without doubling much less tripling taxes amid all the other spending Dems want to do?

Then what do you do with Student Loan Debt? The Green New Deal? Infrastructure?

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker

Bullshit.

Medicare is not better than 95% of employer plans. And it certainly won't be cheaper. $32 Trillion is the price tag for 10 years, and that is the estimates from the same crew that said Obamacare would lower people's monthly premiums.

You can do math, I'm sure. Our 2018 budget was $4.1 trillion with $3.65 Trillion in expected revenue for a debt of $440 billion that was actually nearly $800 billion. How the hell we fitting that BS estimate in without doubling much less tripling taxes amid all the other spending Dems want to do?

Then what do you do with Student Loan Debt? The Green New Deal? Infrastructure?

I'm not trying to defend a plan I don't support but the numbers are there... we can afford it...

In the M4A plan like Warren's you and your employer aren't paying any premiums anymore.

Hell, American's spent 3.85 Trillion last year anyway.

As far as Medicare being better than plans from employers... its better than most. Any argument to the contrary is pretty foolish... Medicare doesn't have networks for starters.

There are plenty of things to attack M4A but continually repeating an argument that is pretty easily debunked is foolish. Access to care... something you brought up is certainly one of them.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

I'm not trying to defend a plan I don't support but the numbers are there... we can afford it...

In the M4A plan like Warren's you and your employer aren't paying any premiums anymore.

Hell, American's spent 3.85 Trillion last year anyway.

As far as Medicare being better than plans from employers... its better than most. Any argument to the contrary is pretty foolish... Medicare doesn't have networks for starters.

There are plenty of things to attack M4A but continually repeating an argument that is pretty easily debunked is foolish. Access to care... something you brought up is certainly one of them.

$3.85 Trillion isn't a real number. Those are billing numbers in which 20% or so is actually collected.

So if my company no longer pays for my healthcare, I can only assume that'll come back to me in my paycheck as I pay out the ass in taxes for M4A in 2020 forward?

You'll never convince Guvmint healthcare for the entire masses is a great plan.

The real plan is to reduce prices for prescription drugs and the prices of overall healthcare. We may well have the best healthcare on the planet, but we are paying twice to thrice the price for it. Fix that. Not the insurance.

[reckless]

Wow. From the analysis I have read today in just this one thread says one thing and one thing only:

Donald J. Trump is a cinch, sure winner and a mortal lock to win re-election in 2020.