“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.” ―

[rastajenk]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

I was afraid you'd misunderstand that.

Think of it as (YOU & i) are from a different age [THAN THIS ONE.]

I read it as intended. But hey, he's the smart one around here, so upgrade your communication skills, Dave!!

[classhandicapper]

Here's what I take from this election and the state of the United States in 2020.

In 1988 at the peak of his energy, career, and intellect Joe Biden was an also ran against Michael Dukakis, Gary Hart, Richard Gephardt, Jesse Jackson, Paul Simon and Al Gore in the 1988 election. He dropped out before the primaries because of his many scandals and associations with less than ideal people.

Here we are in 2020, he's the same guy with worse corruption, but now he's also an early stage dementia patient, and he's winning.

Of course a big part of that is because Trump is his opponent and he's a different kind of bad, but Biden still won his party's nomination because the main opposition was an economically illiterate delusional socialist.

If that doesn't scare the shit out of you nothing will.

[46zilzal]

I watched the reaction of students at my alma mater (UCLA) when Donald Trump Jr tried to lecture them about the premise of his new book and he got heckled off the stage.

Reminded me of a similar crowd reaction to a talk I attended many moons ago, same place, where the theater arts department was showing the classic Nazi propaganda film, Leni Riefenstahl's Triumph of the Will. I had not noticed that after the showing we would be forced to listen to the then, president of the American Nazi Party, George Lincoln Rockwell (who would be assasinated later that summer of 1967) who would have a short talk. As he vomited the same lies and fascist crap, the audience, slowly at first, and then rising to a loud unified voice, booed his sorry butt off the stage as well.

Times have not changed that much even though almost 50 years apart: an informed crowd knows unadulterated b. s. when they hear it and reacts to same.

[ElKabong]

Originally Posted by 46zilzal

I watched the reaction of students at my alma mater (UCLA) when Donald Trump Jr tried to lecture them about the premise of his new book and he got heckled off the stage.

.

Hopefully counselors were on hand to help those students with their penis envy. Sounds like they need some emotional assistance

[Dave Schwartz]

Originally Posted by rastajenk

I read it as intended. But hey, he's the smart one around here, so upgrade your communication skills, Dave!!

With my room temperature IQ, perhaps I'd have a better result in Las Vegas.

During the day.
In August.
Around 2pm.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by 46zilzal

I watched the reaction of students at my alma mater (UCLA) when Donald Trump Jr tried to lecture them about the premise of his new book and he got heckled off the stage.

Reminded me of a similar crowd reaction to a talk I attended many moons ago, same place, where the theater arts department was showing the classic Nazi propaganda film, Leni Riefenstahl's Triumph of the Will. I had not noticed that after the showing we would be forced to listen to the then, president of the American Nazi Party, George Lincoln Rockwell (who would be assasinated later that summer of 1967) who would have a short talk. As he vomited the same lies and fascist crap, the audience, slowly at first, and then rising to a loud unified voice, booed his sorry butt off the stage as well.

Times have not changed that much even though almost 50 years apart: an informed crowd knows unadulterated b. s. when they hear it and reacts to same.

Actually, times have changed quite a bit. Far, far more censoring going on today than it was 50 years. The "tolerant" left doesn't take kindly to diversity of opinions or ideas. And this betrays their total lack of self-confidence and security in their own position.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Actually, times have changed quite a bit. Far, far more censoring going on today than it was 50 years. The "tolerant" left doesn't take kindly to diversity of opinions or ideas. And this betrays their total lack of self-confidence and security in their own position.

Forget about protecting controversial speech and hoping for balanced coverage of politics, there are Nobel Prize winning scientists getting blackballed from science conferences because they disagree with the mainstream view on Covid.

There are doctors being contacted by the authorities and told to remove information from their blogs about how they've been treating their patients for Covid.

We are slowly getting to the point where there won't be a ton of difference between our media and what's going on in China or Russia except that the Chinese and Russian populations know their media is fake. So they try to get information and news from outside their borders.

A huge percentage of our population is crazy enough to believe we are getting unbiased truthful news in the US.

And you are 100% correct on your last point.

If you are confident you can win a battle of ideas, you welcome debate. That's how you can best inform people and hopefully change minds. Lack of confidence is why they are resorting to censoring. It's because they are afraid of losing that battle and have decided that the ends justify the means. They are willing to censor in order to win and then impose their views on others. It's a kind of arrogance common to all totalitarians. They are all so confident they are right, they want to suspend debate and impose their views. Regardless of whether they are right or wrong on any issue, that is not how a free society and media is supposed to work.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Forget about protecting controversial speech and hoping for balanced coverage of politics, there are Nobel Prize winning scientists getting blackballed from science conferences because they disagree with the mainstream view on Covid.

There are doctors being contacted by the authorities and told to remove information from their blogs about how they've been treating their patients for Covid.

We are slowly getting to the point where there won't be a ton of difference between our media and what's going on in China or Russia except that the Chinese and Russian populations know their media is fake. So they try to get information and news from outside their borders.

A huge percentage of our population is crazy enough to believe we are getting unbiased truthful news in the US.

And you are 100% correct on your last point.

If you are confident you can win a battle of ideas, you welcome debate. That's how you can best inform people and hopefully change minds. Lack of confidence is why they are resorting to censoring. It's because they are afraid of losing that battle and have decided that the ends justify the means. They are willing to censor in order to win and then impose their views on others. It's a kind of arrogance common to all totalitarians. They are all so confident they are right, they want to suspend debate and impose their views. Regardless of whether they are right or wrong on any issue, that is not how a free society and media is supposed to work.

Moreover, censorship itself is a form of lying! It's covering, hiding, concealing opposing ideas or information to promote an agenda. This is a form of lying by omission.

[Jeff P]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

...If you are confident you can win a battle of ideas, you welcome debate. That's how you can best inform people and hopefully change minds. Lack of confidence is why they are resorting to censoring. It's because they are afraid of losing that battle and have decided that the end justifies the means. They are willing to censor in order to win and then impose their views on others. It's a kind of arrogance common to all totalitarians. They are all so confident they are right, they want to suspend debate and impose their views.

Imo, you nailed it with that last paragraph.

I recall an incident on my own college campus after the Shah of Iran was overthrown in '79.

Basically a group of Iranian students were booed off the stage after advocating 'Death to America.'

But that's all we did. Booed them off the stage.

There was plenty of shouting. But nobody threw stuff at them. And certainly, nobody tried to beat the crap out of them.

The speaker who followed the Iranians opened with something along the lines of:

"One of the key differences between Iran and these United States is that we have a First Amendment that guarantees Freedom of Speech. And even though I disagree with everything they just said I'll defend to the death their right to say it."

I think that's the one thing that's changed the most.

The viewpoint that Freedom of Speech is everything.

That viewpoint is SO much harder to find in 2020 than it used to be.

These days it's pretty easy to find people who completely lose it the minute the person in front of them doesn't conform to their world view.

Imo, if you are so fragile that you completely lose it at the mere idea that someone doesn't conform to your world view:

Maybe you don't belong on the stage in the first place.


-jp

.

[Dave Schwartz]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

"One of the key differences between Iran and these United States is that we have a First Amendment that guarantees Freedom of Speech. And even though I disagree with everything they just said I'll defend to the death their right to say it."

I think that's the one thing that's changed the most.

The viewpoint that Freedom of Speech is everything.

That viewpoint is SO much harder to find in 2020 than it used to be.

These days it's pretty easy to find people who completely lose it the minute the person in front of them doesn't conform to their world view.

Imo, if you are so fragile that you completely lose it at the mere idea that someone doesn't conform to your world view:

Maybe you don't belong on the stage in the first place.


-jp

.

Just plain awesome!


This was so good that I had to borrow a couple of thumbs from a friend.
Now he can't brush his teeth.

[Andy Asaro]

Twitter

[rastajenk]

Long live the Bee.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by 46zilzal

in my post graduate education, NEVER ONCE, was I told how to think....NEVER

And did you ever figure out how to?