Religion III

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Here stuff this verse up your ego and choke on it:

Guess I hit a nerve.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Maybe I missed it. And the answer was...?

Dig for it. It'll give you something to do.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

Guess I hit a nerve.

I guess you're wrong as usual. But Esau wasn't the only one God hated. Not by a long shot.

Ps 5:4-6
4 You are not a God who takes pleasure in evil;
with you the wicked cannot dwell.
5 The arrogant cannot stand in your presence;
you hate all who do wrong.
6 You destroy those who tell lies;
bloodthirsty and deceitful men
the LORD abhors.
NIV

And,

Ps 11:5-6
5 The LORD examines the righteous,
but the wicked and those who love violence
his soul hates.
6 On the wicked he will rain
fiery coals and burning sulfur;
a scorching wind will be their lot.
NIV

Harsh words, heh? No wonder you cling to Lk 17:21 as though it were your spiritual life preserver.

But you fail to ask yourself the most important question: What makes you think you aren't wicked?

[Light]

Well, you are making my point. You are again portraying God as a "hateful" entity when he so chooses to hate others as Jesus said not to do. Jesus said to "love your enemies". Reconcile that.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Dig for it. It'll give you something to do.

That's how you responded to me the LAST time I asked you this question...several years ago. It doesn't hurt to say that you don't know, Boxcar.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

Well, you are making my point. You are again portraying God as a "hateful" entity when he so chooses to hate others as Jesus said not to do. Jesus said to "love your enemies". Reconcile that.

No, YOU reconcile it, genius!

And I'm not portraying God as "hateful". Did I write scripture!?

But because I know that your simple mind is steeped in the thick, black darkness of ignorance, you wouldn't be able in a 1,000 years to "reconcile" the two passages. You think there is a contradiction, yet there isn't one. If your lazy, unspiritual mind were able to plumb the depths of a shallow mud puddle, you would be able to figure this out. But I'll come to your rescue by once again, quoting your "best friend". Since you're so in tune with his teaching, so much on same page as He is, I'm sure you'll agree with him.

I have quoted the following kingdom parable several times over the years; but you still don't get it. And it's very likely you never will. Since it is a kingdom parable, the parable is about the King, i.e. your "best friend" Jesus.

Luke 19:11-27
11 While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once. 12 He said: "A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. 13 So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas. '

Put this money to work,' he said, 'until I come back.'

14 "But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, 'We don't want this man to be our king.'

15 "He was made king, however, and returned home. Then he sent for the servants to whom he had given the money, in order to find out what they had gained with it.

16 "The first one came and said, 'Sir, your mina has earned ten more.'

17 "'Well done, my good servant!' his master replied. 'Because you have been trustworthy in a very small matter, take charge of ten cities.'

18 "The second came and said, 'Sir, your mina has earned five more.'
19 "His master answered, 'You take charge of five cities.'

20 "Then another servant came and said, 'Sir, here is your mina; I have kept it laid away in a piece of cloth. 21 I was afraid of you, because you are a hard man. You take out what you did not put in and reap what you did not sow.'

22 "His master replied, 'I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant! You knew, did you, that I am a hard man, taking out what I did not put in, and reaping what I did not sow? 23 Why then didn't you put my money on deposit, so that when I came back, I could have collected it with interest?'

24 "Then he said to those standing by, 'Take his mina away from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.'

25 "'Sir,' they said, 'he already has ten!'

26 "He replied, 'I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what he has will be taken away. 27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them — bring them here and kill them in front of me.'"
NIV

Whether you want to believe it or not, this parable is messianic in nature. Jesus is the "master" in this parable. Jesus is the one of "noble birth" who went to a "distant country" (heaven when he ascended to his Father on Pentecost) to be crowned King, and his interactions with his servants (operative term here is SERVANTS) occurs at his Second Coming at which time both the righteous and unrighteous will be judged by Him.

So, whaddya think: Will Jesus, at his Second Coming, violate his own Law by having his enemies put to death before him instead of showing them his love? Is Jesus contradicting himself with this teaching by not loving his enemies upon his return? And why in the world would Jesus ever characterize himself as a "hard", exacting man? Do you think Jesus misrepresented himself in this parable?

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

No, YOU reconcile it, genius!

And I'm not portraying God as "hateful". Did I write scripture!?

You are the one interpreting scripture according to your ego. People have killed in the name of God and present scripture as defense according to their interpretation of it.

It comes down to your translation and interpretation of the word "hate" as used in the Bible. Consider this statement that Jesus said, filled with "hate".

Luke 14:26: “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.”

So tell me fool, do you hate your wife, mother and father and your own life? If not you are not following what Jesus said. Oh wait, you are going to spin this hate statement but not the others. Am I psychic or what!

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Light

You are the one interpreting scripture according to your ego. People have killed in the name of God and present scripture as defense according to their interpretation of it.

It comes down to your translation and interpretation of the word "hate" as used in the Bible. Consider this statement that Jesus said, filled with "hate".

Luke 14:26: “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.”

So tell me fool, do you hate your wife, mother and father and your own life? If not you are not following what Jesus said. Oh wait, you are going to spin this hate statement but not the others. Am I psychic or what!

Boxcar, being a "cafeteria Christian", can pick and choose among the different Jesus statements. And the above Jesus comment is decidedly "unappetizing".

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

You are the one interpreting scripture according to your ego. People have killed in the name of God and present scripture as defense according to their interpretation of it.

It comes down to your translation and interpretation of the word "hate" as used in the Bible. Consider this statement that Jesus said, filled with "hate".

Luke 14:26: “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.”

So tell me fool, do you hate your wife, mother and father and your own life? If not you are not following what Jesus said. Oh wait, you are going to spin this hate statement but not the others. Am I psychic or what!

Fool, I'll answer your question after you answer mine in my last post regarding the Luke 19 kingdom parable. Do you BELIEVE your "best friend" or not? On judgment day, is the King of kings and Lord or lords going to slay his enemies -- those like you who were too good to serve him here on earth. Those who also relished the idea of doing what is right in their own eyes and marching to their own drum beat? Is he going to slay those who lived by their own standards, and not God's?

And can't you reconcile the Luke 14 passage above with the 5th commandment in the Law of Moses? Or is that above your pay grade, as well? Or did your "best friend" trip over another contradiction?

P.S. Do you know what hyperbole is? And why it is used in speech?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Boxcar, being a "cafeteria Christian", can pick and choose among the different Jesus statements. And the above Jesus comment is decidedly "unappetizing".

Only to those with no spiritual understanding. "There is no one who understands, no one who seeks God" (Rom 3:11) Perhaps you'll find this text more appetizing -- more palatable?

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Fool, I'll answer your question after you answer mine in my last post regarding the Luke 19 kingdom parable. Do you BELIEVE your "best friend" or not? On judgment day, is the King of kings and Lord or lords going to slay his enemies -- those like you who were too good to serve him here on earth. Those who also relished the idea of doing what is right in their own eyes and marching to their own drum beat? Is he going to slay those who lived by their own standards, and not God's?

And can't you reconcile the Luke 14 passage above with the 5th commandment in the Law of Moses? Or is that above your pay grade, as well? Or did your "best friend" trip over another contradiction?

P.S. Do you know what hyperbole is? And why it is used in speech?

Oh...Jesus was "hyperbolizing"? Then...how do we know that he wasn't exaggerating about his "second coming"?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Oh...Jesus was "hyperbolizing"? Then...how do we know that he wasn't exaggerating about his "second coming"?

We can know that he wasn't regarding the Parousia the same way we know that he was "hyperbolizing" in Luke 14. Got that?

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by boxcar

We can know that he wasn't regarding the Parousia the same way we know that he was "hyperbolizing" in Luke 14. Got that?

Ahhh...OKAY! Jesus was hyperbolizing only when you WANTED him to.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Ahhh...OKAY! Jesus was hyperbolizing only when you WANTED him to.

No, there are actually objective ways to tell. Wanna take another swing?

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by boxcar

No, there are actually objective ways to tell. Wanna take another swing?

There is nothing "objective" about religion. All things religious are SUBJECTIVE.