the slide continues

[MonmouthParkJoe]

Originally Posted by alhattab

Lest anyone think Monmouth Park is doing well, they ran 34 more races in June 2019 v June 2018 (143 v 109). With roughly 7 starters per race in 2019 and $ per betting interest around $43k, there's your $10M. Keeping 2018 per race handle constant, Monmouth should be up $11.5M. The shortfall is due to about $9k lower per race handle, undoubtedly due to the >10% relative decline in field size.

Anyone else noticing the age of horses running? I've seen a few races at Monmouth with some really old fields- one a few weeks ago had three nine year olds! Anecdotal and I haven't studied in detail. Anyone know if there's data out there with the average age of horses entered or something like that?

Average age at Monmouth per betting interest is 6.4 years old. haha jk but interesting and I know is out there, just cant pull it.

Belmont had no triple crown on the line this year, generally speaking a triple crown is worth about $35 to $40 million in handle just by virtue of it taking place. Weather was an issue with a lot more off the turf compared to last year and subsequent effect on field size.

If the weather cooperates, its great which is the case for everyone. That being said, yesterday was the highest Stars & Stripes Day they ever had.

The opening day Saratoga card looks fantastic. Now lets just hope the weather cooperates.

[elhelmete]

Originally Posted by Afleet

I can't see anything changing as long as the foal count continues to go down every year

Yes.

The #2 reason is 15 lengths behind.

And everyone should look back on Santa Anita's spring to see what happens when you apply pressure to fill the entry box without a robust horse population behind it.

[Afleet]

Originally Posted by elhelmete

Yes.

The #2 reason is 15 lengths behind.

And everyone should look back on Santa Anita's spring to see what happens when you apply pressure to fill the entry box without a robust horse population behind it.

I have a piece of multiple broodmares, first foals be 2 y/o next year. So I'm in for at least the medium term. Think I made a huge mistake-time will tell

[lamboguy]

all they need to do is recruit a few more CRW players and that will take care of the handle.

[Robert Fischer]

Cali = obviously having issues

NYRA = they have a lot of race days, and it just seems like the purses are good and the trainers and owners are strong in their leverage and connection to the management. They're doing good business. When there is a race on the dirt, 'six entries' is presented (with a well acted, classic, deadpan straight-face) to the public as a full field. (wasn't '8' or so considered a standard of 'reasonably full' in the past?)

I now focus full-time on NYRA. The best bet seems to be the Pick-5, but it does take a bit of an investment.
On many days the dirt races have 7, 6, or 5 horses as the field, so that does bring down pick-5 costs, a bit. At times, turf races can feature uncoupled entries of four horses for the same trainer, and additionally may feature other horses with former assistants as trainers, as well as owner associations or jockey associations, etc... The turf races provide the best opportunity for full fields.

[bob60566]

[QUOTE=lamboguy;2488765]all they need to do is recruit a few more CRW players and that will take care of the handle.[/QUOTE]

So true and the life blood of the industry at the present time..Because of the lack of direction this industry has taken over the last fifteen years or so.

[GMB@BP]

[quote=bob60566;2488779]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

all they need to do is recruit a few more CRW players and that will take care of the handle.[/QUOTE]

So true and the life blood of the industry at the present time..Because of the lack of direction this industry has taken over the last fifteen years or so.

Probably also a good reason why some of the tracks seem to care so little about the working guy who regularly bets, in the grand scheme of things they are not that useful.

[ronsmac]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Cali = obviously having issues

NYRA = they have a lot of race days, and it just seems like the purses are good and the trainers and owners are strong in their leverage and connection to the management. They're doing good business. When there is a race on the dirt, 'six entries' is presented (with a well acted, classic, deadpan straight-face) to the public as a full field. (wasn't '8' or so considered a standard of 'reasonably full' in the past?)

I now focus full-time on NYRA. The best bet seems to be the Pick-5, but it does take a bit of an investment.
On many days the dirt races have 7, 6, or 5 horses as the field, so that does bring down pick-5 costs, a bit. At times, turf races can feature uncoupled entries of four horses for the same trainer, and additionally may feature other horses with former assistants as trainers, as well as owner associations or jockey associations, etc... The turf races provide the best opportunity for full fields.

If all the dirt races At Belmont had 7 horses that would be a vast improvement. The dirt fields have been pathetic for years but this is as bad as I’ve ever seen it. Aqueduct and Belmont is where I got my start so it makes me sad now. They have huge purses and tiny fields. God forbid it rains , then you even see 3 and 4 horse fields at Belmont.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by ronsmac

If all the dirt races At Belmont had 7 horses that would be a vast improvement. The dirt fields have been pathetic for years but this is as bad as I’ve ever seen it. Aqueduct and Belmont is where I got my start so it makes me sad now. They have huge purses and tiny fields. God forbid it rains , then you even see 3 and 4 horse fields at Belmont.

Thats why the raise takeout for higher purses will lead to larger fields is the biggest bullshit the tracks try to shovel.

[bob60566]

Do those CRW AND CAW care about those small fields.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by bob60566

Do those CRW AND CAW care about those small fields.

They probably are not thrilled but since there bottom line is at worst a few points in loss its not hurting them as bad.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by ronsmac

If all the dirt races At Belmont had 7 horses that would be a vast improvement. The dirt fields have been pathetic for years but this is as bad as I’ve ever seen it. Aqueduct and Belmont is where I got my start so it makes me sad now. They have huge purses and tiny fields. God forbid it rains , then you even see 3 and 4 horse fields at Belmont.

You see 6 horses and then 1 scratches and you've got horses...


when I used to 'cap every circuit, I would just scroll entries and look at the bottom color.

Would demand at least 'Pink'
better yet teal or purple

lot of green , black&gold, or orange with NYRA...


That's how they choose to present it. Horseman are fine with it, and Pick-5 larger players can work with it. Degenerates and small-timers still bet trifecta boxes and stuff in these races... It's better for the Owners and NYRA than running a day less a week and a race less a day, and putting in due diligence to design/card better fields.

For now it's Pick-5, and spot plays on turf, and an occasional full-field dirt stakes. The other thing they could do is scale Takeout to field-size.
suggestion; 10% is the minimum or less runners, add 2% per runner with a cap on 15% or whatever their current WPS takeout rate is.

[bob60566]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

You see 6 horses and then 1 scratches and you've got horses...


when I used to 'cap every circuit, I would just scroll entries and look at the bottom color.

Would demand at least 'Pink'
better yet teal or purple

lot of green , black&gold, or orange with NYRA...


That's how they choose to present it. Horseman are fine with it, and Pick-5 larger players can work with it. Degenerates and small-timers still bet trifecta boxes and stuff in these races... It's better for the Owners and NYRA than running a day less a week and a race less a day, and putting in due diligence to design/card better fields.

For now it's Pick-5, and spot plays on turf, and an occasional full-field dirt stakes. The other thing they could do is scale Takeout to field-size.
suggestion; 10% is the minimum or less runners, add 2% per runner with a cap on 15% or whatever their current WPS takeout rate is.

How would that effect the large pools on there rebates. as that is the main source of income right now for the track.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by bob60566

How would that effect the large pools on there rebates. as that is the main source of income right now for the track.

1. it'll never happen
2. initially it would reduce $
3. long-term it would increase investment and $

[bob60566]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

1. it'll never happen
2. initially it would reduce $
3. long-term it would increase investment and $

Increase investment in what .?

Most tracks today could lock the doors and still run races and people could watch from the casino windows if they wanted.