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08-26-2019, 01:55 PM
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#31
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
The money got spent.
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Oh, I'm sure it did. It always does.
I was kind of, sort of, asking HOW it was spent? I remember hearing these "shovel ready jobs" really didn't turn out as advertised.
But I was probably reading a very biased, right-wing website at the time.
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08-26-2019, 02:31 PM
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
Oh, I'm sure it did. It always does.
I was kind of, sort of, asking HOW it was spent? I remember hearing these "shovel ready jobs" really didn't turn out as advertised.
But I was probably reading a very biased, right-wing website at the time.
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I know people who worked those jobs...
Point is its really no different than the public works jobs of the FDR Administration... I know... I know... Obama big bad Kenya Guy and whatnot...
Some worked.
Some didn't.
Its not really my jam and I attacked it then... but what Margie said was a bogus and honestly pretty unintelligent shot at the left without any historical context.
Fact is if we're looking on the scale of socialism/progressivism the four I mentioned were SIGNIFICANTLY further left than mainstream Democrats today.
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08-26-2019, 02:39 PM
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#33
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
Fact is if we're looking on the scale of socialism/progressivism the four I mentioned were SIGNIFICANTLY further left than mainstream Democrats today.
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But there aren't any of those remaining today (mainstream Democrats). At least none running for higher office. Kind of makes it all moot.
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08-26-2019, 02:40 PM
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#34
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
But there aren't any of those remaining today (mainstream Democrats). At least none running for higher office. Kind of makes it all moot.
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John Delaney. Steve Bullock. Sadly, close to no support.
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08-26-2019, 02:43 PM
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#35
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
But there aren't any of those remaining today (mainstream Democrats). At least none running for higher office. Kind of makes it all moot.
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Compared to Trump, any democrat is mainstream
__________________
The inmates have taken over the asylum. 
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08-26-2019, 02:47 PM
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#36
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcap
Compared to Trump, any democrat is mainstream
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This type of thinking is why the Dem Party is not a heavy favorite to win back the WH in 2020. In the last debate, Elizabeth Warren tripled down on her claim that coming into the country illegally should not be a crime. I know, I know, many such cases are handled through civil proceedings, but that isn't the point. Her position on this matter is lunacy.
Last edited by Saratoga_Mike; 08-26-2019 at 02:49 PM.
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08-26-2019, 02:56 PM
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#37
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
But there aren't any of those remaining today (mainstream Democrats). At least none running for higher office. Kind of makes it all moot.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike
John Delaney. Steve Bullock. Sadly, close to no support.
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Take a look at the 2018 flips... there are plenty of mainstream democrats... they are what gave them the majority.
Lincoln, FDR, Teddy, and LBJ would be significantly to the left of the 40 odd seats.
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08-26-2019, 02:59 PM
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#38
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 11,049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike
This type of thinking is why the Dem Party is not a heavy favorite to win back the WH in 2020. In the last debate, Elizabeth Warren tripled down on her claim that coming into the country illegally should not be a crime. I know, I know, many such cases are handled through civil proceedings, but that isn't the point. Her position on this matter is lunacy.
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Here’s hoping you’re wrong. IMO, the best payback for electing Trump would be a socialist to end all socialists.
__________________
All I needed in life I learned from Gary Larson.
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08-26-2019, 03:04 PM
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#39
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike
This type of thinking is why the Dem Party is not a heavy favorite to win back the WH in 2020. In the last debate, Elizabeth Warren tripled down on her claim that coming into the country illegally should not be a crime. I know, I know, many such cases are handled through civil proceedings, but that isn't the point. Her position on this matter is lunacy.
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Well Trump is the incumbent and unemployment is still at 3.7%...
That logic cuts both ways.
Blindfolded any one of us could toss a dart into one of many troubling positions Warren has...
As TJ just said though... its going to be hilarious that Trump backlash results in just how left this country tacks. Here is the real catch-22 though:
Elect Biden and you likely have full Democrat control as the Senate flips on his coattails...
Or...
You could get a Bernie or a Warren...
At least Trumpists will like the Trade Policy. 
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08-26-2019, 03:04 PM
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#40
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
Take a look at the 2018 flips... there are plenty of mainstream democrats... they are what gave them the majority.
Lincoln, FDR, Teddy, and LBJ would be significantly to the left of the 40 odd seats.
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By national candidate, I thought he was referring to the presidential race, not Congressional races. In Trump districts, where the Dem prevailed in 2016, many are "Steve Bullock/Evan Bayh" Dems.
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08-26-2019, 03:06 PM
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#41
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike
By national candidate, I thought he was referring to the presidential race, not Congressional races. In Trump districts, where the Dem prevailed in 2016, many are "Steve Bullock/Evan Bayh" Dems.
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Biden isn't a mainstream Democrat in his books?
He is the front runner...
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08-26-2019, 03:08 PM
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#42
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike
This type of thinking is why the Dem Party is not a heavy favorite to win back the WH in 2020. In the last debate, Elizabeth Warren tripled down on her claim that coming into the country illegally should not be a crime. I know, I know, many such cases are handled through civil proceedings, but that isn't the point. Her position on this matter is lunacy.
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Should we go Trump versus any sane politician. Including Elizabeth Warren or Ronald Reagan.
I lead with the stable genius ignoring Putin hacking our election, and in Helsinki.....Trump saying he believed Putin over our intel chiefs. Not either sane or mainstream.
__________________
The inmates have taken over the asylum.
Last edited by hcap; 08-26-2019 at 03:09 PM.
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08-26-2019, 03:13 PM
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#43
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
Blindfolded any one of us could toss a dart into one of many troubling positions Warren has...
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Her position on the border is insane. Trump will scare the hell out of the suburban mom with Warren's insanity on this issue. I can't think of any of her positions that would poll worse than this one. 70% income tax rate for the uber-wealthy? Popular. Wealth tax? Popular. Medicare-for-all? Not that popular (if asked correctly), but not on par with her border insanity. Maybe giving free healthcare to illegals? Not popular, but it has to poll better than the border issue.
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08-26-2019, 03:15 PM
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#44
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcap
Should we go Trump versus any sane politician. Including Elizabeth Warren or Ronald Reagan.
I lead with the stable genius ignoring Putin hacking our election, and in Helsinki.....Trump saying he believed Putin over our intel chiefs. Not either sane or mainstream.
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Why make it hard? Why the hell can't you support someone like Bullock? Why support someone like Warren who can easily be painted as a lunatic on border security?
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08-26-2019, 03:20 PM
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#45
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 4,914
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJDave
Here’s hoping you’re wrong. IMO, the best payback for electing Trump would be a socialist to end all socialists.
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To hell, then, at any cost, as to what would be best for the majority of the American people? But hey, never-censored Maher is all for a recession, as well, if it would get rid of Trump. Obviously, birds of a feather...
BTW, "payback" to whom...your fellow American citizens? Really?? Just for spite?? Unreal!
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