Frankel runs Wednesday (8-22)

[horses4courses]

Race to be shown on HRTV

10:40am ET - attempts 10 furlongs for the first time - his main rivals are St. Nicholas Abbey (2011 BC Turf winner) and Farhh

http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/r...ampions-series

York
Juddmonte International Stakes (Group 1) (British Champions Series) 1m 2f 88y
(3yo+, 1m 2f 88y, Class 1, 9 runners)
Winner £411,148 2nd £155,875 3rd £78,010 4th £38,860 5th £19,502 6th £9,788
Going: Good to Firm
Surface: Turf
# Form Horse A Wgt Trainer Jockey OR Naps Odds
1
(6)
5/78-464
Bullet Train 21
5 9-5 Sir H R A Cecil E Ahern 108
2
(4)
1/1-1322
Farhh 21
4 9-5 Saeed bin Suroor L Dettori 122
3
(7)
111-111
Frankel 21
4 9-5 Sir H R A Cecil T P Queally 140
4
(8)
458-337
Planteur (IRE) 63
5 9-5 M Botti R L Moore 117
5
(5)
343600
Robin Hood (IRE) 32
4 9-5 v A P O'Brien J A Heffernan 99
6
(2)
7-16571
Sri Putra 25
6 9-5 hb R Varian N Callan 116
7
(3)
51-2213
St Nicholas Abbey (IRE) 32
5 9-5 A P O'Brien J P O'Brien 124
8
(9)
110-233
Twice Over 46
7 9-5 Sir H R A Cecil I Mongan 118
9
(1)
316545
Windsor Palace (IRE) 27
7 9-5 v A P O'Brien C O'Donoghue 106
Race History

Year Draw Horse A Wgt Trainer Jockey SP
2011 4 Twice Over 6 9-5 Sir H R A Cecil I Mongan 11/2
show more
Betting

Forecast
Frankel (1/7), St Nicholas Abbey (6/1), Farhh (14/1), Twice Over (25/1), Planteur (33/1), Sri Putra (50/1), Bullet Train (150/1), Robin Hood (200/1), Windsor Palace (200/1)

In depth

Verdict
This has always been the plan for the mighty FRANKEL and he can pass this stiffer test of stamina with flying colours. Nothing has managed to get him off the bridle over 1m this year and Farhh, even if he takes his chance, looks to have no hope of reversing Sussex Stakes form with Sir Henry Cecil's superstar. The only worry would be if regular pacemaker Bullet Train and St Nicholas Abbey's stable companions, Robin Hood and Windsor Palace, were to set a suicidal gallop but even then you suspect that the world's top-rated equine performer would have the pace to outpoint St Nicholas Abbey, who is infinitely better over 1m4f. Cecil also runs last year's winner Twice Over and he has place claims along with Sri Putra, who often goes well at a big price in this type of race though did finish behind Farhh and Twice Over in the Coral-Eclipse.

Formwatch
Bullet Train 150-1 (9-7) Led, pushed along and joined 3f out, headed approaching final 2f, outpaced and lot 2nd inside final 2f, well beaten when lost 3rd near finish, last of 4, 10l behind Frankel (9-7) at Goodwood 1m Grp 1 (1) gd.

Farhh 11-1 (9-7) Tracked leading pair, pushed along and switched left 3f out, went 2nd but well outpaced by winner inside final 2f, never any chance, 2nd of 4, 6l behind Frankel (9-7) at Goodwood 1m Grp 1 (1) gd.

Frankel 1-20fav (9-7) Tracked pacemaker, moved upsides on bit 3f out, led approaching final 2f, quickened well clear over 1f out, impressive, won at Goodwood 1m Grp 1 (1) gd beating Farhh (9-7) by 6l, 4 ran.

Planteur (IRE) 10-1 (9-0) Sweating, held up towards rear, headway towards inside 2f out, ridden over 1f out, faded inside final furlong, 7th of 11, 6l behind So You Think (9-0) at Royal Ascot 1m 2f Grp 1 (1) gd in Jun.

Robin Hood (IRE) 100-1 (9-7) Started slowly, headway to lead 10f out, headed and weakened rapidly over 3f out, tailed off and eased, last of 10, well behind Danedream (9-4) at Ascot 1m 4f Grp 1 (1) gs in Jul.

Sri Putra 12-1 (9-2) Held up behind in touch, headway over 2f out, ridden to challenge over 1f out, edged left inside final furlong, stayed on to lead towards finish, won at York 1m 2f Grp 2 (1) gf in Jul beating Afsare (9-2) by nk, 9 ran.

St Nicholas Abbey (IRE) 5-1 (9-7) Held up last, headway under strong pressure and hung right entering final 2f, hard driven and went 3rd inside final furlong, no chance with leading duo, 3rd of 10, 1 3/4l behind Danedream (9-4) at Ascot 1m 4f Grp 1 (1) gs in Jul.

Twice Over 16-1 (9-7) Held up in rear, headway over 2f out, soon not much room brielfy, went 3rd inside final furlong, stayed on, not able to challenge, 3rd of 9, 3 1/2l behind Nathaniel (9-7) at Sandown 1m 2f Grp 1 (1) gs in Jul.

Windsor Palace (IRE) 14-1 (9-12) Soon prominent and wide, disputed after 2f, 2nd entering straight, ridden in 3rd 2f out, no extra over 1f out, 5th of 6, 8l behind Famous Name (9-12) at Leopardstown 1m 1f Grp 3 (1) gd in Jul.

[classhandicapper]

This is what they've been aiming for. So now we'll get to see if he can pass a new test and finish well at a longer distance against what looks like a decent field.

This should be fun.

[Steve R]

I believe the race is actually 10.4 furlongs (1 mile, 2 furlongs and 88 yards).

[LLHorses]

At The Races Program

Click on any horses name for a complete race history.


Or here's a PDF Printout


Scroll down for each horses' last 6 races

[Some_One]

3 rabbits in the race, going to be very interesting to watch how that unfolds. I think Frankel might ignore them and just stick to Bullet Train for 6f then go on his way.

[Stillriledup]

I would bet against him. As good as he is in real life (which is very good) the hype is far outweighing his actual talent. No way he can live up to what people seem to expect from him. I don't remember a more hyped horse in all the years i've been following this game.

[PaceAdvantage]

Surely you jest.

[PhantomOnTour]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

I would bet against him. As good as he is in real life (which is very good) the hype is far outweighing his actual talent. No way he can live up to what people seem to expect from him. I don't remember a more hyped horse in all the years i've been following this game.

Ever heard of Sea The Stars?
.
.
.
.
.
.
or Zenyatta ?

Frankel is one of, if not THE, highest rated horses ever on Timeform....if a horse came around that equaled or bettered the Beyer given Secretariat for his Belmont he would be hyped to the heavens, and rightly so.

[Tom]

How does he live up to expectations?

Win?

So you say no way i hell he wins, right? As good as he is right now.






OK.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by Tom

How does he live up to expectations?

Win?

So you say no way i hell he wins, right? As good as he is right now.






OK.

Actually, i dont think that's true. Zenyatta won and won and won and got bashed and bashed and bashed. Same thing for Rapid Redux, all he did was win and all he did was create another skeptic along the way.

As far as me saying no way he wins, i fully expect him to win by a large margin, that's what usually happens in his races, right? I dont view this stuff from a 'racing fan' standpoint, i'm just looking at from a gambling standpoint. I always look to beat heavy favorites, i dont have to beat too many of them to show a really nice profit. I don't live in Europe so i have no way of betting against him, but this is the type of horse i routinely bet against knowing that i dont have to be right very often to make a pretty good score.

I know, its against the grain and its anti establishment and against the popular opinion, but the only way to survive in this betting game is to go against the public at large. When the whole world is zigging, i'm zagging.

Now, its nothing against the horse himself. this is strictly a gambling opinion and not a 'pretty horsey' opinion. I try and keep my fan side and my gambling side seperate. As a fan, i want him to win by 100 lengths and break all kinds of records and create a world wide sensation that we've seen pegasus actually come out of the sky and visit earth. My betting persona is just looking to beat him, with nothing personal at all entering in the equasion. Its not personal, its business.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

Actually, i dont think that's true. Zenyatta won and won and won and got bashed and bashed and bashed. Same thing for Rapid Redux, all he did was win and all he did was create another skeptic along the way.

Do I need to point out the obvious in that Frankel has never lost?

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Do I need to point out the obvious in that Frankel has never lost?

I was just commenting on Tom's comment that if you win, you live up to expectations and gave an example of a horse who won won won but that didnt seem to be enough for many. The expectations are so high right now for Frankel, im not sure he can live up to it (keeping the gambling part seperate).

If Frankel opens up a big lead, tires late and hangs on to win by a diminishing half length, will everyone say "he won, he did what he had to do, he's as great as ever". Im not sure people are going to be satisfied unless he wins going away by 5 lengths or more.

Just winning races doesnt seem to be enough for people, they want dominance and they want epic stuff. Z won and won and won, but she didnt win by 10 under a hammerlock, she gave her fans stressful moments on a few occasions and many other occasions she won by 2 lengths or less, that wasnt enough for everyone even though a nose win is the same as a 10 length win, counts just the same in the record books.

I would love to see Frankel win by 10 in his next start and if he has any more starts after that, another 10 length win. I'd also love to see him come for the Breeders Cup, but no way that's going to happen.

If Frankel retires undefeated (which seems likely) and never leaves his home area and never races on dirt and never really races around 3 or 4 turns and all his wins were by open lengths, are you going to feel completely satisfied and ready to annoint him the best in history? Doesnt part of you want to see him outside his comfy zone? As a true sportsman (ok, maybe not ;-)) i'd love to see him do something out of that zone, ya know, like pulling an Akeem Joffer and come to America.

[UK View]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

I was just commenting on Tom's comment that if you win, you live up to expectations and gave an example of a horse who won won won but that didnt seem to be enough for many. The expectations are so high right now for Frankel, im not sure he can live up to it (keeping the gambling part seperate).

If Frankel opens up a big lead, tires late and hangs on to win by a diminishing half length, will everyone say "he won, he did what he had to do, he's as great as ever". Im not sure people are going to be satisfied unless he wins going away by 5 lengths or more.

Just winning races doesnt seem to be enough for people, they want dominance and they want epic stuff. Z won and won and won, but she didnt win by 10 under a hammerlock, she gave her fans stressful moments on a few occasions and many other occasions she won by 2 lengths or less, that wasnt enough for everyone even though a nose win is the same as a 10 length win, counts just the same in the record books.

I would love to see Frankel win by 10 in his next start and if he has any more starts after that, another 10 length win. I'd also love to see him come for the Breeders Cup, but no way that's going to happen.

If Frankel retires undefeated (which seems likely) and never leaves his home area and never races on dirt and never really races around 3 or 4 turns and all his wins were by open lengths, are you going to feel completely satisfied and ready to annoint him the best in history? Doesnt part of you want to see him outside his comfy zone? As a true sportsman (ok, maybe not ;-)) i'd love to see him do something out of that zone, ya know, like pulling an Akeem Joffer and come to America.

Why on Earth would he want to run on dirt?

Do top US horses (ie Zenyatta) need to have run on turf to be considered great.

Outside the US there is literally zero interest in Dirt. That doesn't mean its no good.

[UK View]

Here's the horses website btw.

Quite a good one with lots of info....

http://frankel.juddmonte.com/

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by UK View

Why on Earth would he want to run on dirt?

Do top US horses (ie Zenyatta) need to have run on turf to be considered great.

Outside the US there is literally zero interest in Dirt. That doesn't mean its no good.

He doesnt have to do anything the owners don't want him to do, he's already proven he's great. But, there's a difference between great and the very best who ever looked thru a bridle.

In the US, Zenyatta got hammered becuase most of her races were in the West. People wanted to see her travel the country, hit up numerous tracks and beat the best from around the country. She traveled some, but not as much as people would have liked.

Does he have to come to America and 'prove' anything? Absolutely not. But, if he DID actually to come to the states and crushed, i have to believe he would be in the conversation of greatest ever. As of now, i just think he's in the conversation of the greatest European turf horse, but if he's more than just a Euro turf star, its something you have to actually prove on the racetrack.