Churchill Downs raising takeout

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

Maybe if the racing actually showed some signs of someday showing a profit, it would invest more in it. Remember the reason tracks have slots is that the tracks were losing money and were going to close. Anybody that thought a casino was going keep sinking money into racing for ever has recently visited Denver. Racing (the horsemen)may or may not win this battle in the LA legislature, but it won't keep winning them forever. It is up to racing to clean up its own house. That means the horsemen because casino run race tracks aren't going to it. That means using some of there slot fueled purse money to promote the game. It is their livelihood that is one the line. I am not holding my breathe.

Yea whats interesting now though you have people who are in the sport basically saying there is no way that it can be fixed and want this permanent welfare to be able to pay the bills.

Thing is there are no votes to be bought to keep the casino money in place for racing, that welfare is going to go away.

[horses4courses]

[OTM Al]

Down from last year but second highest all time....

[Seabiscuit@AR]

Given that they raised the takeout rates by over 9% for win and over 15% for exotics a drop in turnover of 5.7% would still have CD in front on the deal, provided that the level of discount betting by rebate players this year is the same as last year

If the level of betting by rebate players has changed from last year then obviously the equation changes but we don't know this info

[TraderX]

It's kind of strange that New York is known as one of the most mismanaged high income tax rate states in the nation, along with California. However, their takeout rates on win mutuels are among the lowest.

Unfortunately, the bettors are more sophisticated in New York, so the mutuels are lower anyway.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by TraderX

It's kind of strange that New York is known as one of the most mismanaged high income tax rate states in the nation, along with California. However, their takeout rates on win mutuels are among the lowest.

Unfortunately, the bettors are more sophisticated in New York, so the mutuels are lower anyway.

Why are the bettors more sophisticated in NY? Is there some data that proves this is true? I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but why do you think this is true?

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

Why are the bettors more sophisticated in NY? Is there some data that proves this is true? I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but why do you think this is true?

This "NYers are more sophisticated" adage was strictly a pre-simulcasting phenomenon. In the full-card simulcasting era, everyone bets everywhere...so this saying no longer applies, IMO.

[TraderX]

Professionals are practically forced to bet large circuits by default. Professionals ARE more sophisticated. It is not rocket science, never heard anyone disagree with this before now. This does effect mutuel prices.

[therussmeister]

Originally Posted by Seabiscuit@AR

Given that they raised the takeout rates by over 9% for win and over 15% for exotics a drop in turnover of 5.7% would still have CD in front on the deal, provided that the level of discount betting by rebate players this year is the same as last year

If the level of betting by rebate players has changed from last year then obviously the equation changes but we don't know this info

But Churchill only gets that 9% and 15% of the bets placed through them. What they get from the rest of the country is whatever they were able increase their signal fees to. How many rebate players bet through Churchill?

[Seabiscuit@AR]

therussmeister

turnover figures or handle figures are a poor guide because we don't know how many bets have been sold at full takeout and how big the rebates are on any rebate bets

Anyways for what the figures are worth (ie not much), Kentucky Derby handle down 0.80% but the whole day handle was up 1.4% on last year

http://www.drf.com/news/kentucky-der...own-08-percent

[cosmicway]

Just heard this on Greek tv, during the derby replay they showed.
Shame - can find immitators - should be resisted.

What I have done under similar circumstances in the past is to cut my wagering by a half, knowing that I can't stop it althogether and stuck to it.

The public are -unfortunately- clowns and this is why the companies do it (both those who raise takeouts and those who start business with exorbitant takeouts).

Some years ago we had a strike, for the same reason (increase in takeout percentages). But the stike was organized by the betting shops themselves, who thought it was too much indeed and it could drive customers away.
All the shops remained closed on race day but the two company franchise shops stayed open so I went there to see what happens.
The place was full and the idiots spilled into the street !
I approached with caution, thinking those people might be company people and if I said something wrong they might become angry. But it turned out those were local characters I more or less knew from previous encounters.
So I started chatting and as it turned out they did not even know what was going on ! Those trade unionists striked for some reason they were saying, so we had to come here !

In the end the betting company settled for half the increase they had announced, but that did not bring them any happiness.
You know the score in GR ?
The score is that in 2007 we had 2.5 million to 3.0 million pool size on a day after day basis. Now it is 240 thousand twice a week - as one race day had to be scrapped off. The takeout of 2007 is the total now !
True that the economic crisis and the euro crisis accounts for much of it but the other types of betting companies (soccer - lottery) do not have the same sort of problem. They are down by 20%, not 90% !

The following things have been proven:

- the "theory of idiots" is true just like the race course economic supremos believe
- the punters are drained, new ones do not arrive and the system collapses

You can fool the people, you cannot fool the euros (dollars, rupees) in their pockets.

[JohnGalt1]

Now that the Derby is over, I'm done with CD until they rescind higher take out rates on my wins.

Had some good days betting that track.

[cosmicway]

Originally Posted by JohnGalt1

Now that the Derby is over, I'm done with CD until they rescind higher take out rates on my wins.

Had some good days betting that track.

What's their justification for it ?
Some authorities are horrible.
They write in annual reports:

we succeded in lowering payouts

and on another occasion:

we succeded in making shops pay for their terminal machine

[SandyW]

Churchill handle down 43% Thur. of this year vs Thur. of last year.

[wonatthewire1]

Originally Posted by SandyW

Churchill handle down 43% Thur. of this year vs Thur. of last year.

Churchill and Arlington were not available yesterday here in NJ via TVG; perhaps there are some other issues out there as well. I sent an email to TVG but did not get a response but it was around 4:45pm