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Old 04-19-2019, 11:21 AM   #106
davew
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M

So why didn't Mueller go after Manafort for collusion?

Something else Mueller didn't address was Hillary Clinton's collusion with Russian Intel to create and use the fake dossier to instigate the Mueller investigation - but the good news is were going to get to that real soon.
It wasn't the Russians, it was the Ukrainians. Mueller's probe was just looking at Russians and their influence on the last election. Not the CIA, state department, current administration, UK and Australian spy organizations, FBI, DNC .....
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Old 04-19-2019, 11:23 AM   #107
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Collusion isn't a crime!!!!

Manafort has been charged with Conspiracy Against the United States. He pled guilty to it prior to trial. The evidence in the report provides the road map of his actions.



There was no collusion with Russia intel and the Mueller investigation wasn't instigated because of the dossier.

Read the report... The Mueller investigation was began because of Trump's actions with Rosenstein surrounding the firing of Comey. Namely he wanted Rosenstein to lie about it...

As to the original FBI investigation... again... read the damn report. Most of these actors in the report like Carter Page had already been involved in counter-intelligence operations predating Donald Trump even announcing his candidacy.

This is why actually reading stuff, even if it makes your guy look bad, is important. Most of the stuff being harped on here like Ukrainian assistance to Clinton, Carter Page, FISA warrants, is all debunked in the actual report that "totally exonerates" the President.
I wouldn't expect Muellers report to show ANY bias towards Trump. Hell, after all, he was not put in place to be Unbiased! He was put in place to FIND a crime!
If it was just a look and see as you might suggest, then I am sure there were lawyers from both sides on Muellers team right?? Let's not act like this was some Unbiased team just having a look over. They were put in place to nail Trump to his coffin. IT DIDNT HAPPEN!! Try as they might, they couldn't do it!

Please don't think for a minute that if they could bring charges that they wouldn't already been filed. Hell, they had how many agents awaken an old man in the wee hours of the morning with SWAT etc etc?? But continue your narrative of how Trump acts and looks guilty. Hell, with the way things have been in the media, the lunatic left, the hearings after hearings trying to nail him, its so wonder the guy hasn't thrown himself in the pit of hell!!

Now again, don't get me wrong...I am not saying he didn't take missteps along the way. I don't think the guy is at all squeaky clean. But I am also not gonna just roast him when ALL of congress is the exact same way. THEY ALL LIE!!! So don't sit here and say "well look he lied" and thats equivalent to Watergate! But " Hillary's lies , well they are just little lies so its ok". Hillary has a damn road map of bodies that follow in her wake but its just little inconvenient mishaps and coincidence I'm sure ....

ITS ALL GRAVY!!!!

You all were supposed to have Hillary elected, then he wasn't supposed to be in office this long, now its "it isn't over yet" to coin Hcap!!

All I know is the Supreme Court looks better now then it did two years ago!!
My Taxes are lower, then they were the previous year.
My stocks and retirement look better now then in the past several years...
ITS ALL GRAVY!!!

And now back to our regularly scheduled program of lets get TRUMP!!!
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Old 04-19-2019, 11:56 AM   #108
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I wouldn't expect Muellers report to show ANY bias towards Trump. Hell, after all, he was not put in place to be Unbiased! He was put in place to FIND a crime!
I want you to look back and read your post. The quoted is the only topical thing in it.

The Report is the report. Everything in there is sourced. I find it interesting that everyone wants to take Barr's letter as gospel while ignoring the report it's based off of.

I don't necessarily fault Barr and can accept most of what he says. But I also know he is a political operative to be put in place and do a job. Its politics and I understand the game.

But if you actually read the report and what is in it there is a big difference between Barr's summarization and what's actually in it.

For Instance:

Barr made the decision that Obstruction didn't occur using the following logic: Since there was no underlying crime, in this case conspiracy (we need to stop using collusion because that happened), the President was just using his powers of the office. There was essentially nothing to "obstruct."

That's a pretty rational argument to the layperson and even though I think its a pretty crazy standard that would only be afforded to the President it is a legitimate argument.

Mueller however did not use that logic in making his "non-decision." His was essentially that the President attempted to Obstruct but on the whole was largely ineffective due to the actions or lack of actions of others. He rejected Barr's reasoning. Because of that Mueller cited that a body exists to enforce any criminality and leaves it up to others (Congress) to decide.

Regardless of anything else its a matter of interpretation based on the facts presented. You and others here however have demonstrated no interest in the facts and are merely trying to shout over the opposition as if its a winning or even sensible argument.

Remember when American Pharaoh was entering the Belmont and everyone was still really questioning his ability to handle 1 1/2? That if anything was going to undo his bid it was going to be the distance?

Then we all watched the race... we saw those internal fractions... and we became convinced that not only could he get the 1 1/2 but he may actually be ****ing invincible going that distance...

The Report in this case is the Belmont... read the damn thing.
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Old 04-19-2019, 12:03 PM   #109
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M

So why didn't Mueller go after Manafort for collusion?

Something else Mueller didn't address was Hillary Clinton's collusion with Russian Intel to create and use the fake dossier to instigate the Mueller investigation - but the good news is were going to get to that real soon.
Who said he went after him for collusion? Chumpy
Hillary's emails ad infinitum again?

Mueller's mandate had nothing to do with Clinton
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Old 04-19-2019, 12:24 PM   #110
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The Report in this case is the Belmont... read the damn thing.
Ooh my Gawd. That analogy is as close as marmalade is to gravel.
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Old 04-19-2019, 12:28 PM   #111
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So, if Adam Schiff for Brains says he has information that Mueller did not, should HE be charged with OBSTRUCTION? Withholding information?
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Old 04-19-2019, 12:30 PM   #112
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So, if Adam Schiff for Brains says he has information that Mueller did not, should HE be charged with OBSTRUCTION? Withholding information?
Let's wait until Mueller testifies.
That will happen next month.
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Old 04-19-2019, 12:33 PM   #113
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So, if Adam Schiff for Brains says he has information that Mueller did not, should HE be charged with OBSTRUCTION? Withholding information?
Adam Schiff runs the Intelligence Committee and would be briefed on counter-intelligence operations.

On-going counter-intelligence stuff wouldn't necessarily be in the report and I think it was Barr and Schiff who stated the counter-intelligence stuff isn't in there.

Its interesting though that one thing, the Carter Page story, is in there and basically nukes the Carter Page FISA Warrant theory... a few members on the committee had alluded to the fact he was previously under observation back during the Nunes Memo time.

Post Mueller Report we know why.
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Old 04-19-2019, 12:35 PM   #114
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Ooh my Gawd. That analogy is as close as marmalade is to gravel.
Worked for me in what I thought was a rational presentation without needing 4 more paragraphs of incoherent Ad Hominem.

I tried hard to be nice in temper and tone in that post... guess it was wasted.
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Old 04-19-2019, 12:44 PM   #115
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I tried hard to be nice in temper and tone in that post... guess it was wasted.
Not wasted at all. I firmly believe that "Laughter is the best medicine."
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Old 04-19-2019, 01:34 PM   #116
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This is why actually reading stuff, even if it makes your guy look bad, is important. Most of the stuff being harped on here like Ukrainian assistance to Clinton, Carter Page, FISA warrants, is all debunked in the actual report that "totally exonerates" the President.
Oh, I think not. But if they appoint a special councel to investigate the steel dossier, Clintons email server, the FBI etc and find all is proper, I will accept their findings. Whats turned around is fair play - I for one can't wait.
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Old 04-19-2019, 01:58 PM   #117
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Oh, I think not. But if they appoint a special councel to investigate the steel dossier, Clintons email server, the FBI etc and find all is proper, I will accept their findings. Whats turned around is fair play - I for one can't wait.
You disagree about the contents of something without even reading it?

Carter Page, one of the key members of the Steele Dossier, was the primary State's Witness in a American case against Russian spies as late as 2015.*

Kinda debunks the unjust "wiretapping" as he was wiretapped and part of a counter-intel effort going back to 2013.*

The Ukrainian thing is bogus. Manafort was meeting with people who wanted to carve up the Ukraine to suit Russia's interests.*

As for the "But her emails thing" fine... go ahead I guess... its been investigated a ton already and none of them including the House/Senate Intel/Judiciary Committees made any criminal referrals... under Republican control I might add.

I just don't want to hear about wasting money on the Mueller Report from those people, not saying you're one of them.


* All in the Mueller Report nobody cares about now that its hard on the Prez...

EDIT)

Also I find it funny that you would accept the "All is proper" on those findings but ignore that the Mueller Report "does not exonerate" the President.

Especially since you haven't been accepting of all the other reports regarding Clinton's Emails as proper.
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Old 04-19-2019, 03:19 PM   #118
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As for the "But her emails thing" fine... go ahead I guess... its been investigated a ton already and none of them including the House/Senate Intel/Judiciary Committees made any criminal referrals... under Republican control I might add.
The FBI investigated Hillary, but not the senate. In fact the Senate backed off Trumps request for an investigation into Hillary back in 2017. But that was then and this is now.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-s...on-email-probe
Apparently Sessions did order an investigation into Hillary Clinton that is still on going.

I think many are awaiting the IG report coming out soon.

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Old 04-19-2019, 03:58 PM   #119
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The FBI investigated Hillary, but not the senate. In fact the Senate backed off Trumps request for an investigation into Hillary back in 2017. But that was then and this is now.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-s...on-email-probe
Apparently Sessions did order an investigation into Hillary Clinton that is still on going.

I think many are awaiting the IG report coming out soon.
Lindsay Graham is not the Senate thankfully.

Quote:
From your article.....

It’s possible the GOP senators have forgotten this pesky detail, but the Justice Department inspector general’s office already examined the probe into Hillary Clinton’s private email server and it discredited the conspiracy theories.

As the New York Times’ David Leonhardt explained last year, “Federal investigators and prosecutors did not give preferential treatment to Clinton. They pursued the case on the merits. They were guided by, as the inspector general’s report puts it, ‘the prosecutor’s assessment of the facts, the law, and past Department practice.’”

There was no pro-Clinton bias.
Hold on to your tin foil hats.

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Old 04-19-2019, 04:14 PM   #120
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The FBI investigated Hillary, but not the senate. In fact the Senate backed off Trumps request for an investigation into Hillary back in 2017. But that was then and this is now.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-s...on-email-probe
Apparently Sessions did order an investigation into Hillary Clinton that is still on going.

I think many are awaiting the IG report coming out soon.
Yeah its being/been investigated... Trey Gowdy comes to mind immediately and after a year of investigating came up with no new recommendations or referrals.

Also what does Hillary's emails have to do with the Mueller Probe and the transgressions of the Report?

The answer is nothing... If of course you actually read it.

You're trying to deflect from the current report which is damning to the previous reports like Horowitz's and the Congressional ones which really weren't.
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