Religion III

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by porchy44

There are a good number of Christians who are anti-intellectual or anti-scientific. But that is not the classic Christian position.I understand why you take that point of view because you heard that. It's not what Catholics actually believe. It's not actually the classic tradition.

You guys are smart. Why don't you do your homework a little better. If your really interested in this debate, why don't you find out what we actually believe. Instead of setting up these strawmen and taking potshots at fundamentalists. thats real easy to do.

In the Western world, we are all born and raised as Christians. If some of us later turned our back on the Christian church...it wasn't because we don't know what the Christians "actually believe". We KNOW what Christians believe...because we were taught the same things ourselves. But we don't believe in these things anymore...as is our right in a country where "freedom of religion" reigns.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

No.



No.



Yes.

Since you obviously cannot answer my question without making excuses, I'll give you the answer to this riddle that Jesus said:

Luke 14:26: “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.”

What Jesus is saying here is that if you want to follow him and reach the "Kingdom of God/Heaven" (which btw is within), you must give him your "undivided attention". You must be devoted to God,first. Elsewhere Jesus confirms this with "No one can serve two masters. " or " If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? ".

Jesus is saying the same for an individual. If his Earthly relationships have an equal or greater footing as one's relationship to God, you will not stand or reach your goal. If you have been on this journey in life (as I have), you will know that, because:

A) God gave you these relationships in the first place that you cherish and he can and will take them away eventually. So he is the source of all internal and external love in your life in the first place.

B) All Earthly relationships, no matter how happy they are, come with suffering and pain included. It's not an option. Therefore if you are truly looking for happiness (Heaven),humans cannot cut it by their own nature. They will let you down at some point because of their frailties and cannot always be there for you.

C) But God ALWAYS lifts you up and ALWAYS gives you what you need far more than any human can,via his divine love. This is where your priority needs to be over all your other relationships and as Jesus affirms with "seek ye the Kingdom of Heaven and all things shall be added unto you." In other words put your trust in God,not man.

So the word "hate" in Luke 14:26 here is a very poor translation. In effect it is closer to the word "rejection" for any of these Earthly relationships having any priority over one's relationship with God.

But if you are a very shallow Christian,like you are Boxcar, you cannot see the deeper meanings in what Jesus says. Instead you take the word hate "literally" and follow the opposite path of what Jesus intended. A comedy of errors.

No, the Gr. term translated "hate" (miseo) is a good one and is used over 30 times in the NT. Jesus is employing hyperbole to drive home the point! Jesus is not saying that Christians are to hate their parents! (So, no, I don't take the word literally, as you have claimed.) You, fool, if I took the word literally in that passage, why would I ask you a question about a figure of speech known as "hyperbole"! You see what a liar you are!?

What Jesus is teaching is that even our closet relationships should pale comparison next to Christ, since He alone is capable of giving the greatest gift ever in the universe, which is eternal life. As you said correctly (for once), it has to do with being fully devoted to Christ and following him. But to follow him is to love him; and to love him is to implicitly trust him (which YOU DON'T per your answer above); and to trust him is to obey his commands, which you have already admitted is beneath you. You don't want to submit to Christ's lordship. You don't want him to take the reigns of your heart so that you will obey his laws. In fact, you consider yourself superior to him! You already have implicitly admitted not too long ago that Jesus didn't teach "meditation" because he was a spiritual ignoramus, not knowing or understanding that mere sinful mortals who would exist after him would invent a better way to spirituality, e.g. Buddha. It's no wonder you pay Christ mere lip service and do not follow him. If I had your corrupt, warped, evil mindset, I wouldn't follow him either. Why in the world would I follow anyone who is spiritually inferior to others?

And this takes me back to the parable in Luke 19. The whole point to the parable is Christ as King of kings and Lord of lords will return to this planet one day to judge those who claimed they were his SERVANTS and yet did not obey him! In that parable, there were only two servants who obeyed and worthy of rewards. But the third servant was wicked -- in fact, just like you because he didn't think his Master was worthy to be obeyed either. He, too, was too good for that. He was above that. He wasn't going to be "forced" to submit to anyone. And like you, he knew deep down what the requirements of the Gospel are -- that Jesus was indeed a "hard" man -- a righteous judge -- yet he willfully disobeyed him -- just like you are doing.

Unless you repent of your sins and truly trust in Christ, when you come to the end of your life and enter into the next one, it will not be well with your soul for all eternity. You believe the heresy of reincarnation -- a convenient belief system that says everyone gets second chances after death? Let me clue you in: Every single day that each of us rolls out of bed and our feet touch the ground -- that day and all succeeding days in which we're able to do that are our second chances! "It is given to man to die once, afterward the judgment" (Heb 9:27)!

[porchy44]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

In the Western world, we are all born and raised as Christians. If some of us later turned our back on the Christian church...it wasn't because we don't know what the Christians "actually believe". We KNOW what Christians believe...because we were taught the same things ourselves. But we don't believe in these things anymore...as is our right in a country where "freedom of religion" reigns.

Anti-rational and anti-intellectual fundamentalists
The impression i get from reading atheist comments is how much of their understanding of Christianity and the Christian God is determined by Sunday school and revivalist fundamentalism. They take potshots by asking "How did Noah cleanup the dinosaur poop? It's understandable why they lash out.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by porchy44

Anti-rational and anti-intellectual fundamentalists
The impression i get from reading atheist comments is how much of their understanding of Christianity and the Christian God is determined by Sunday school and revivalist fundamentalism. They take potshots by asking "How did Noah cleanup the dinosaur poop? It's understandable why they lash out.

That's only when debating people like Boxcar...who's staunch belief is that everything reported in the bible is factual. How can you not take potshots at someone who believes that the earth is 6,000 years old...or that a dinosaur actually climbed onto an "Ark"?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

That's only when debating people like Boxcar...who's staunch belief is that everything reported in the bible is factual. How can you not take potshots at someone who believes that the earth is 6,000 years old...or that a dinosaur actually climbed onto an "Ark"?

You mean you think the ark was smaller than a full grown dino? How 'bout a baby dino?

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Nah...you just don't know how to read. (You suck at that, too). It is THERE in the text of the Flood account. You're just too dull to find it.

The flood myth traces back to the Babylonians.

The bible is not a science book. Historically or archaeologically. And the fragmented accounts of things like species, age of the universe and what happened thousands of years ago is just plain awful and wrong

I mentioned more of your failings than just your narrow minded literal interpretation of the so-called "flood" In fact, I have compiled a list of 25+ totally wrong absolutely crazy claims.
You certainly have been busy over the last 20 years

Your most outrageous POS theory is your iron-clad proclamation that god installed Trump as prez. So instead of proving what cannot be proven biblically about Noah, prove god has not uninstalled Trump.

And that you will honor our wager. I haven't forgot. You have.

Toot-a-loo loser

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

The flood myth traces back to the Babylonians.

The bible is not a science book. Historically or archaeologically. And the fragmented accounts of things like species, age of the universe and what happened thousands of years ago is just plain awful and wrong

I mentioned more of your failings than just your narrow minded literal interpretation of the so-called "flood" In fact, I have compiled a list of 25+ totally wrong absolutely crazy claims.
You certainly have been busy over the last 20 years

Your most outrageous POS theory is your iron-clad proclamation that god installed Trump as prez. So instead of proving what cannot be proven biblically about Noah, prove god has not uninstalled Trump.

And that you will honor our wager. I haven't forgot. You have.

Toot-a-loo loser

Blah, blah, blah, blah. Deflect much?

The answer to the insect issue is in the Flood narrative in Genesis. Are you feeling lucky again punk?

P.S. If you weren't so pathetic, you'd be a laughfest . Funny how you never objected to God installing Obama as president, only Trump.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Blah, blah, blah, blah. Deflect much?

The answer to the insect issue is in the Flood narrative in Genesis. Are you feeling lucky again punk?

P.S. If you weren't so pathetic, you'd be a laughfest . Funny how you never objected to God installing Obama as president, only Trump.

You are deflecting. By posing as a biblical expert willing to set everyone right aa to what the bible really means. It is obvious to us all you bring a hateful self-righteous attitude to everything you claim. The bible is a Rorschach test. You project and disclose your mock superiority complex and raging ego driven basby talk to us all by attempting to "instruct"us.

Go "sleuth" yourself

Meanwhile there is no Rorschach test as to who won the 2020 presidential election.

Get your affairs in order

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

You are deflecting. By posing as a biblical expert willing to set everyone right aa to what the bible really means. It is obvious to us all you bring a hateful self-righteous attitude to everything you claim. The bible is a Rorschach test. You project and disclose your mock superiority complex and raging ego driven basby talk to us all by attempting to "instruct"us.

Go "sleuth" yourself

Meanwhile there is no Rorschach test as to who won the 2020 presidential election.

Get your affairs in order

If so, you flunk that with flying colors, as well.

At least you didn't miss your calling, Sherlock, for you couldn't find your way out of a pup tent.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

If so, you flunk that with flying colors, as well.

At least you didn't miss your calling, Sherlock, for you couldn't find your way out of a pup tent.

Preparing your last will and testament bunky?

Btw, yesterday enough individual states have already certified 270 electors for president Biden. It's over. You are over.

Last words before you pack up?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Preparing your last will and testament bunky?

Btw, yesterday enough individual states have already certified 270 electors for president Biden. It's over. You are over.

Last words before you pack up?

Newsflash: States can decertify, also!

And...Supreme Court could order decertification.

So, stuff these two facts into your hash pipe and pass out.

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

So, no, I don't take the word literally, as you have claimed.

What Jesus is teaching is that even our closet relationships should pale comparison next to Christ, since He alone is capable of giving the greatest gift ever in the universe, which is eternal life. As you said correctly (for once), it has to do with being fully devoted to Christ and following him.

This is the only part of your response that is sober. The rest is your imitation of a Christian on drugs.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Newsflash: States can decertify, also!

And...Supreme Court could order decertification.

So, stuff these two facts into your hash pipe and pass out.

Unlike religion, your involved machinations and misinterpretations of laws and and principles, which you make up as you go along, does not apply to presidential elections, particularly during the 21st century

Toot-a-loo loser

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Unlike religion, your involved machinations and misinterpretations of laws and and principles, which you make up as you go along, does not apply to presidential elections, particularly during the 21st century

Toot-a-loo loser

I stated fact. And what's so sacrosanct about the 21st century wherin all manner of high tech, digital chicanery can take place? I mean after all...Didn't Russia hack the 2016 election? I seem to recall that was a big headline early on after the election...

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

I stated fact. And what's so sacrosanct about the 21st century wherin all manner of high tech, digital chicanery can take place? I mean after all...Didn't Russia hack the 2016 election? I seem to recall that was a big headline early on after the election...

All intelligence agencies, and the senate republican intel committee all agreed Putin put his fingers on the scale, and the Trump campaign loved every minute of it.

Whereas all pertinent intelligence officials and the courts over 40 times have shot down your foolish claim of widespread fraud, and your lunatic babbling of communist and Venezuelan manipulation of voting software.

You disgust me with your elaborate conspiracy theories.
No "Revelations" is not playing out in 21st century politics.

Your rampant paranoia does you in. And has caused you to lose our bet.