Signer issue..

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by 1st time lasix

the going "signer" rate where i am located is only 5% not 10% .....they seem rather busy at times.... Some who generally play multi-horse exotics suggest this is the reason they still frequent the place rather than get rebates at home. Evidently a ticket over 5 k is a different proposition due to the automatic witholding. But what do I know.....

The going rate is usually 10%...but you get a discount if you are a repeat customer.

[Dave Schwartz]

Tell them you are in this country illegally.

[thaskalos]

Look...I am not advocating the use of these 10%-ers. But the IRS laws are very unfair when it comes to horse-betting...and they often put horseplayers in a terrible bind. It is the total INCOME from the horses that should be taxable...not the proceeds from the indvividual bets themselves. If the horseplayer is a loser for the year -- as almost all of them are -- then what taxes is the IRS looking to collect?

Yes...it's easy to say that a man should include his gambling activity in his yearly income taxes...but reporting your corresponding losses to offset the winnings usually requires a more understanding wife than most horseplayers have been blessed with . And the IRS should KNOW that...

[traynor]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Look...I am not advocating the use of these 10%-ers. But the IRS laws are very unfair when it comes to horse-betting...and they often put horseplayers in a terrible bind. It is the total INCOME from the horses that should be taxable...not the proceeds from the indvividual bets themselves. If the horseplayer is a loser for the year -- as almost all of them are -- then what taxes is the IRS looking to collect?

Yes...it's easy to say that a man should include his gambling activity in his yearly income taxes...but reporting your corresponding losses to offset the winnings usually requires a more understanding wife than most horseplayers have been blessed with . And the IRS should KNOW that...

Perhaps in what George H. W. Bush called a "kinder, gentler world" such might be so. Not in this one. Like many other areas, serious wagering is what it is. And--like many other areas--it is possible to do well by simply accepting things as they are in reality (rather than how we would like them to be), and continually seeking ways to leverage what advantages exist.

You might consider consulting with your attorney about setting up an LLC just for wagering activities.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by traynor

Perhaps in what George H. W. Bush called a "kinder, gentler world" such might be so. Not in this one. Like many other areas, serious wagering is what it is. And--like many other areas--it is possible to do well by simply accepting things as they are in reality (rather than how we would like them to be), and continually seeking ways to leverage what advantages exist.

You might consider consulting with your attorney about setting up an LLC just for wagering activities.

Thanks...but I was not writing about myself in that post.

[1st time lasix]

I use my visa card every single time i visit a gaming establishment....Track/simulcast/race book/ or casino hotel etc ---- so there is an obvious trail. A track record of being there for the auditor. Even if I just buy an adult beverage...I use the card....no matter how much cash i have in my pocket. I also use a seperate debit visa whenever i go to an ATM for wagering cash....so that is also documented at year end. Keeping a trunk load of tickets is rather silly....and likely worthless. Every reasonable irs agent is really looking for any pattern of deceit or fraud. That includes red flags of charitable deductions and business expenses that don't really match your income level. Just don't give him one. I was audited twice in 1989 and 1991...I brought my accountant with me and a box or two of records.....passed both times.....never again since. I claim the 5 k and up paramutual tickets. Try to get a portion of that back with offsetting losses on my itemized 1040. The key is intent. If they even get a hint there is intention to defraud...you can kiss you butt good bye.... $$$$$

[Robert Goren]

All I know about the IRS and records is what my sister-in-law,a now retired IRS auditor, told me 15 years. She told me to keep a journal of my bets and keep my losing tickets. You should have a reasonable amount of winning bets in your journal. She said it would be hard to deduct expenses such as the DRF and track admissions. I am not saying that it is fair, but just relaying what she told me. At this point, I decided the course of action was to avoid making bets that would be signers. I was firm believer in flying under the radar when gambling and dealing with the IRS. I no longer gamble enough to matter.

[Dahoss2002]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

If the horseplayer is a loser for the year -- as almost all of them are -- then what taxes is the IRS looking to collect?

Yes...it's easy to say that a man should include his gambling activity in his yearly income taxes...but reporting your corresponding losses to offset the winnings usually requires a more understanding wife than most horseplayers have been blessed with . And the IRS should KNOW that...

Gonna use a quote I used to see here from a certain poster.

AMEN BRUDDAH!!

[traynor]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Thanks...but I was not writing about myself in that post.

The suggestion was intended as generic advice for anyone who is wagering profitably, not personal at all.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by traynor

Perhaps in what George H. W. Bush called a "kinder, gentler world" such might be so. Not in this one. Like many other areas, serious wagering is what it is. And--like many other areas--it is possible to do well by simply accepting things as they are in reality (rather than how we would like them to be), and continually seeking ways to leverage what advantages exist.

You might consider consulting with your attorney about setting up an LLC just for wagering activities.

What ills do you think an LLC would cure? Wouldn't an LLC typically be used to insulate the owners from liability issues?

[Jay Trotter]

I would suggest placing your wagers via your Canadian friends. No taxes on winnings here!

[traynor]

Originally Posted by AndyC

What ills do you think an LLC would cure? Wouldn't an LLC typically be used to insulate the owners from liability issues?

Not necessarily. They tend to keep specific activities specific, rather than muddled in a heap with "all income from all sources." It makes it a LOT simpler to document ups and downs in that specific activity (with the advantages that may result).

[traynor]

Originally Posted by Jay Trotter

I would suggest placing your wagers via your Canadian friends. No taxes on winnings here!

That is getting to be more problematic. Not the issue of Canadian friends, but the attitude of the Canadian government in regard to income from wagering. There seems to be a tendency to regard some of those who "consistently do well" to be outside the intent of the exclusion of gambling winnings from income. That is no great surprise.

[MutuelClerk]

The track I work at we have to see a SS card. The reason is for years we would take Insurance card, horsemans license, etc. Well, there was a 10%'er at our track who caught the eye of the IRS. He was a horseman and always used his harness license when he signed. Come to find out he the SS #'s on his license had numbers transposed. The government went back in his history and fined our track 50.00 for every wrong 5754 he signed. Cost them quite a bit.

At our track the going rate now is 5%. Or so I've heard...

[Irish Boy]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Is it illegal to advise someone to seek the services of a 10-percenter?

Yes.