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Old 09-05-2008, 06:12 PM   #1
cj
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Huge problem with racing

You rarely hear this one mentioned, but isn't the constant parade of chalk and short fields a total turn off to possible new players in this game?

Here is one example. The last two days at Woodbine produced the following win payouts:

6.70, 8.60, 3.00, 5.00, 6.10, 4.90, 6.80, 3.60, 3.80, 3.10, 3.10, 5.50, 8.10, 8.40, 10.10, 5.80, 4.20

How is that going to get anyone excited about the game? 17 races over two days, and an average winner paying $5.69. That is little more than getting a blackjack in the casino!

This isn't to pick on Woodbine. It happens around the country. Of course it doesn't happen every day. It does happen often enough to think these racing secretaries need to put on some more competitive races.
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Old 09-05-2008, 06:20 PM   #2
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Maybe the guys who make good Pace/Speed figs are making scoring too easy.
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Old 09-05-2008, 06:30 PM   #3
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I think I'd acutally come at it from the opposite direction -- a parade of short prices might be a turnoff to longtime bettors, whereas novices are probably jumping in and playing many of those those favorites as they learn the game.
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Old 09-05-2008, 06:34 PM   #4
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Totally agree!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
You rarely hear this one mentioned, but isn't the constant parade of chalk and short fields a total turn off to possible new players in this game?

Here is one example. The last two days at Woodbine produced the following win payouts:

6.70, 8.60, 3.00, 5.00, 6.10, 4.90, 6.80, 3.60, 3.80, 3.10, 3.10, 5.50, 8.10, 8.40, 10.10, 5.80, 4.20



How is that going to get anyone excited about the game? 17 races over two days, and an average winner paying $5.69. That is little more than getting a blackjack in the casino!

This isn't to pick on Woodbine. It happens around the country. Of course it doesn't happen every day. It does happen often enough to think these racing secretaries need to put on some more competitive races.
CJ: I think short fields is and has been a major threat to our sport for quite a while now, and am hoping that racing jurisdictions will race fewer days, get the drug mess straightened out (which will certainly add stablity and longevity to the breed) and set-up a scale for horsemen that reward them for running in full fields, as right now they have very little motivation to do so.........

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Old 09-05-2008, 06:44 PM   #5
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Short fields are a very big problem. Whenever a field is large, there is also a very good chance that there will be a few horses in the race that literally have a low single digit chance of winning. Yet they are sometimes only 10-1 or 15-1 and used heavily in the exotics because people hit the "ALL" button. That eats up a lot of the take. Remove them, and it gets really difficult to find value among the remainder.
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Old 09-05-2008, 06:48 PM   #6
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I hardly think 2 days of heavy chalk is going to jeopardize the excitement for the game. It happens. With a fickle joint like WO, chalk is a breath of fresh air and certainly an anomaly.
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Old 09-05-2008, 06:54 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmack
I hardly think 2 days of heavy chalk is going to jeopardize the excitement for the game. It happens. With a fickle joint like WO, chalk is a breath of fresh air and certainly an anomaly.
As I said, it was just one example. Average field size and mutuel price has been shrinking for years. There are too many tracks and too much "free square" slots money around.
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Old 09-05-2008, 07:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
As I said, it was just one example. Average field size and mutuel price has been shrinking for years. There are too many tracks and too much "free square" slots money around.
Granted. While I don't play WO, I suspect a snapshot of the overall mutual PO's might paint a differing picture. Not to split hairs, as you raise a valid point, but smaller fields have been part of the game for a spell. End of meetings, beginning of meet; a variety of reasons for short lived, small fields. NorCal racing is the worst for such.

As greed can be good, so too is chalk and can lull the inexperienced into thinking it's "an easy game". The more the merrier for some.
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Old 09-05-2008, 07:04 PM   #9
Tom Barrister
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Lower Prices

Short fields are partly to blame.

Better handicappers (through software and the amount of information avaialable nowadays) is another.

Fewer lottery players is a third. Instead of playing their house number at the track, they play it in the state Lotto game.

The slots themselves are also partly to blame. People who don't do the work would rather stick the money in the machines than on a trifecta.

What we're left with are people who DO the work (or have the computer do it for them) and come up with mostly logical contenders. Since more money is bet logically than randomly, prices go down.

Then there are the horsemen who fix races, play the pharmaceutical game, and/or darken a horse's form to make a score, and they've gotten as greedy as all getout.

Larger fields would help.

Stronger enforcement for cheaters (i.e. lifetime bans) would help.

Not much can be done about the lottery or slot players.
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Old 09-05-2008, 07:45 PM   #10
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5 and 6 horse fields + short prices + 25% takeout on tris = massacre for anybody betting
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Old 09-05-2008, 07:53 PM   #11
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I have never seen a sport or betting activity where the fans/bettors complain as much as the horse player. It seems that 1/2 the posts here are negative.
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Old 09-05-2008, 08:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misscashalot
I have never seen a sport or betting activity where the fans/bettors complain as much as the horse player. It seems that 1/2 the posts here are negative.
You just upped the % to 51. Nice work.

It's logical people would respond to things that irk them rather than those they're content with, no?
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Old 09-05-2008, 08:32 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
You rarely hear this one mentioned, but isn't the constant parade of chalk and short fields a total turn off to possible new players in this game?

Here is one example. The last two days at Woodbine produced the following win payouts:

6.70, 8.60, 3.00, 5.00, 6.10, 4.90, 6.80, 3.60, 3.80, 3.10, 3.10, 5.50, 8.10, 8.40, 10.10, 5.80, 4.20

How is that going to get anyone excited about the game? 17 races over two days, and an average winner paying $5.69. That is little more than getting a blackjack in the casino!

This isn't to pick on Woodbine. It happens around the country. Of course it doesn't happen every day. It does happen often enough to think these racing secretaries need to put on some more competitive races.
A few more spot-on observations like this one, and I'll have to stop making fun of your avatar.

Your right, the short field gives the favorite just a bit more advantage, chalk players love it, and the die-hard handicapper is going to show up and play anyway. Even while he complains about the short prices, he'll be bragging about the 5 or 6 scores.

The newcomer usually comes in from the craps table because of $100,000 supers hanging on the board. Whether he'll admit it or not, Joe Average dreams of hitting big, he might not even venture $1.00 unless the lotto is at least $40 million. Not worth his trouble, says he.

The CDI/horseman dispute made for a lousy short-field meeting for CD this summer, Calder and DelMar suffered from short-fields. It is full-fields and competitive racing that puts the excitement in the air at Saratoga, Keeneland, and GP. I found AP summer meeting very attractive because of the full fields, with my methods, full fields create a situation where good prices can just fall on you.

Being conservative is really the best answer to short fields because you can't afford to play loose, as you may be able to with full fields knowing that you get your 10-1's. You allow that slop for a week, and then you notice that the 10-1's are going at 5-1, and only getting there half the time.

It has to affect handle, anybody will likely loosen up a bit with full competitive fields of 10 - 12. And when four of those are apparently very competitive, more money is going to be bet in more ways by everyone old, or new.

This is where even the staunch 40 year win bettor, is likely to get a couple of exacta combos, and maybe even play a couple across. Even if he won't admit it.

jdl
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Old 09-05-2008, 09:06 PM   #14
kenwoodallpromos
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Complaint?

Conclusions reached by assessing average over 2 days' fake dirt races- figures!
So now we are getting complaints about Poly being TOO to form?
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Old 09-05-2008, 09:18 PM   #15
Charlie D
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Quote:
You rarely hear this one mentioned, but isn't the constant parade of chalk and short fields a total turn off to possible new players in this game?

The whole shebang is probably a total turn off CJ

In no particular order


Drug use, PMU, too much racing, restricted viewing, paying for race info


Not very attractive is it???

Last edited by Charlie D; 09-05-2008 at 09:20 PM.
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