Interesting article by Beyer

[mountainman]

They should call this insane wager "The Highlander," since there can be only 1. And I'd prefer to not have my head lopped off by squeaky-voiced Christopher Lambert.

[burnsy]

Originally Posted by castaway01

It's not "stirring the pot" when it's a fact that the takeout is, in effect, 52 percent unless you are the one person lucky enough to hit on a day no one else does. I think Beyer's article made solid points about how it's a bad bet, as it is one of the worst bets in racing as far as money invested versus money returned (except if it carries over to the last day of the meet and then they have to pay it out). Whether or not it excites casual bettors and attracts them to the game, it's a bit early to say that is happening. One thing in its favor---the lottery has a similar takeout, and there are millions of people who throw money into that on a daily basis. So, hey, you never know---maybe this bet will revive the game.

I don't know about revival but anything helps. but you made the best point...PEOPLE DON'T THINK ABOUT THE THINGS HORSEPLAYERS DO. they just gamble for the chance at winning or to have fun. everyone here knows its not a great bet...horse racing is not a great bet ,especially if you are not an expert. yes, its better than these bets but people DON'T CARE. horse people don't understand that people will bet low increments for a CHANCE at winning. these people that try to analyze the bet don't even get it. your chances of winning lotto, slots and scratchies are like getting hit by lightning but people play that crap by the millions. its not even a question of good bet vs. bad bet...of course its not a great bet...but for a dime who gives a damn? do people sit there at the lottery outlets and slots worrying about take out? if they really did, no one would play. all the garbage that people talk about is basically that....garbage. the racino here takes in more money in a week than many tracks see in months or a season......oh yeah, granny in the corner on her penny machine has her calculator out to figure out the take out.....NOT....if people did that and cared. no one would play. the machines at aqueduct have broke records.....yeah people bet on the basis of the take out or their chances of winning...thats a lie...the other forms of gaming prove that...like i said 20 to 30 years behind. people will bet on two roaches racing across a room...they bet on wheels spinning where you don't even know what you need to win! yet the educated fools don't want to expand the menu based mostly on pride. so they use take out and how good the bet is to argue the point...most people that gamble could care less about those things so they take their business elsewhere. thats how it really works. horse racing has not been the only legal bet for decades...and they still don't understand that. but the indians do, they are crushing with the slots. in the 1920's and 30's the street number (illegal) in many cities was usually based on horse races so no one could fix it. 80 or 90 years later and they still have not caught on.

[DeltaLover]

Originally Posted by burnsy

No, it won't make "converts" overnight....but you are onto something that horse racing can't understand or wants to swallow...its basic econoimics. supply and demand. the slots love their penny players. there are tons of penny and nickle machines at EVERY casino.

I agree with most of what you are saying here albeit I you are still missing something..

A real horse player is a very unique creature having very characteristics to share with gamblers from any other field.

During the years I have make a distinction of a real horse bettor and a more casual which I find it interesting. When I was a regular in Casino's Sport Books I realized that most of the bettors there were just trying to get lucky winning a few bucks so they could have enough to go back to their main game which usually was poker, craps or baccarat. They would never loose a substantial amount betting horses simply because they were only trying it when they were close to been broke! None of them have the tiniest clue for the game, even the very few of them holding a program were completely ignorant about handicapping.

A real horse player is one who grew up with the game, who thinks about it every single minute of his life and believes in his ability to have a better opinion than anyone else in the word about the game. A real horse player does not care too much when loosing a race, at least not as much as he cares when he slips to any other form of gambling losing his hard earned horse profits to it.

Horse racing is in desperate need for real horse players, not rail birds looking to take a shot. Extreme gimmicks like GP P6 is not a bet a real horse player will ever even think of playing... Bayer is analyzing the reasoning really well.

For some strange reason, racing authorities seem not to get it. They keep on underestimating our level of intelligence for decades, treating us like sheeps to the slaughter, like the complete idiots who no matter what they will always come back to gamble regardless of the betting conditions offered.

[JohnGalt1]

I know it's unrealistic because it's a 10 cent bet, but I prefer the $1 or $2 traditional pick 6 because at least they pay 5/6.

And yes I have played the Rainbow 6 a few times if I could come up with a ticket I thought had chance to win.

[ceejay]

If today's action does not prove the horrible nature of this bet, I don't know what will. Lots of long prices including 2 >$35 horses with no favorites still yielded 2 winning tickets and another carryover. Pick 5 had 0 winners and carryover as well.

[BIG49010]

Originally Posted by ceejay

If today's action does not prove the horrible nature of this bet, I don't know what will. Lots of long prices including 2 >$35 horses with no favorites still yielded 2 winning tickets and another carryover. Pick 5 had 0 winners and carryover as well.

Your correct, if they couldn't hit it today, it will build until the end of the meeting. Frank Stronach and the people at Gulfstream look like geniuses!

[mannyberrios]

Mr Bayer is 100% correct about everything he said

[PIC6SIX]

I agree with you 100% Burnsy. I too hit it on a small ticket of 3 dollars once. I was having a bad day and about to leave the track almost busted and played a 3 dollar ticket twice. Got back 316 dollars twice. Your logic and my logic coincide. I love it when the pool is over 1 million since the big players are increasing the payoff for the small player. I do not agree with Beyer on this issue at all.

[Light]

This sport needs a wake up call and so does Mr. Beyer. I'd rather play a bet with a 52% takeout, where my ability to make money off of it is 20x better (due to coverage), than a bet that has a 28% takeout and crap coverage because the base bet is 20 times higher.

You don't need to hit the jackpot to make money off this bet. It paid $111K today for a dime. $2 P6 players would drool just for half that payout. Saturday it paid $1000 for basically chalk. What's wrong with that? No Mr. Beyer, most players are not playing it to hit pie in the sky. They are smart players who realize this is a bet they can work with to make 20% or 30% ROI or more. Try doing that with the $2 P6. You'll be broke before you do the math.

[MightBeSosa]

Nah, this is great. I don't play it, but who wants well heeled syndicates of professional horseplayers winning all the big pots.

The rules keep them out of pot for fear of getting their clocks cleaned.

[cj]

Judging by the results today, it is a terrible bet. For it to only pay 110k given those winners is ridiculous.

If you enjoy playing the lottery, then this bet might have some appeal. Otherwise, you are the sucker at the table while Gulfstream rakes in your money.

[MightBeSosa]

Originally Posted by cj

Judging by the results today, it is a terrible bet. For it to only pay 110k given those winners is ridiculous.

If you enjoy playing the lottery, then this bet might have some appeal. Otherwise, you are the sucker at the table while Gulfstream rakes in your money.

What do you think it should have paid. Any idea what the parlay was?

The payoff was actually light, but considering its a 10 cent ticket, and they only return a fraction of the pool, not totally out of line.

[Dahoss2002]

Originally Posted by PIC6SIX

I agree with you 100% Burnsy. I too hit it on a small ticket of 3 dollars once. I was having a bad day and about to leave the track almost busted and played a 3 dollar ticket twice. Got back 316 dollars twice. Your logic and my logic coincide. I love it when the pool is over 1 million since the big players are increasing the payoff for the small player. I do not agree with Beyer on this issue at all.

Wow you hit it twice? If that was today you coulda screwed yourself outta 1.5 million.

[plainolebill]

If it attracts fans to the sport it serves a good purpose. We talk a lot about shrinking pools and a dying sport maybe this is a first step in turning it around. Any kind of excitement generated is a good thing imo.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Light

This sport needs a wake up call and so does Mr. Beyer. I'd rather play a bet with a 52% takeout, where my ability to make money off of it is 20x better (due to coverage), than a bet that has a 28% takeout and crap coverage because the base bet is 20 times higher.

You don't need to hit the jackpot to make money off this bet. It paid $111K today for a dime. $2 P6 players would drool just for half that payout. Saturday it paid $1000 for basically chalk. What's wrong with that? No Mr. Beyer, most players are not playing it to hit pie in the sky. They are smart players who realize this is a bet they can work with to make 20% or 30% ROI or more. Try doing that with the $2 P6. You'll be broke before you do the math.

Hey now! Look what finally brought you in out of the cold...I'm shocked I tells ya...shocked!!!!