Attn: f2tornado

[dballard125]

Originally Posted by f2tornado

Buckpasser in the x passing position means it goes through a daughter of Buckpasser but cannot be transmitted through back to back colts. At least that's the theory. Horses fitting this angle with fast final fractions include:

Forte (also female family 1-x)
Tapit Trice
Kingsbarns (LA Derby not a Stanley qualifying race but I don't care)
Mage
Disarm (the LA Derby again)
Skinner (if he gets one more defection)

I didn't look at anything beyond 21st spot. The following also have the Buckpasser-x but missed on certain angles:


Raise Cain* (does not qualify; 5th)
Rocket Can* (does not qualify; loss of ground)
Hit Show* (does not qualify, final 3/8th time but probably faster when adjusted)
Continuar* (in tail female line, don't know the fractions)

Awesome info, as always. And much appreciated, as always. There is one horse that I was hoping to see on that list, who I really like for the Derby. Angel of Empire. I love his stamina, his stride, his final times, and his pedigree.

Do any of the horses above w/ Buckpasser-x, also carry RAN?

[sovereign]

Originally Posted by dballard125

Do any of the horses above w/ Buckpasser-x, also carry RAN?

Mage, Disarm, and Skinner.

Skinner and Disarm both ran their last 3/8ths in under :37s

[Fightingirish51195]

I have Angel of empire, hit show, lord miles, and skinner as having both RAN and buckpasser while qualifying on final fractions.

[f2tornado]

Originally Posted by dballard125

Awesome info, as always. And much appreciated, as always. There is one horse that I was hoping to see on that list, who I really like for the Derby. Angel of Empire. I love his stamina, his stride, his final times, and his pedigree.

Do any of the horses above w/ Buckpasser-x, also carry RAN?

After further review, I did locate Buckpasser-x 7 generations deep in Angel of Empire. That one would qualify on the Buckpasser angle and big bonus points for being a RAN. Mage, Disarm, and Skinner are also RAN with fast fractions. Hit Show is close.

I had a spread sheet with the Caris points in it but my file got deleted. Forte and Tapit were top two then there were several clustered just behind. Angel, Skinner, Mage.

[Fightingirish51195]

Originally Posted by f2tornado

After further review, I did locate Buckpasser-x 7 generations deep in Angel of Empire. That one would qualify on the Buckpasser angle and big bonus points for being a RAN. Mage, Disarm, and Skinner are also RAN with fast fractions. Hit Show is close.

I had a spread sheet with the Caris points in it but my file got deleted. Forte and Tapit were top two then there were several clustered just behind. Angel, Skinner, Mage.

Hey f2, I am wondering if you are computing times for final fractions or using a source. I am using e gps on equibase and mage doesnt quite get there

[f2tornado]

Originally Posted by Fightingirish51195

Hey f2, I am wondering if you are computing times for final fractions or using a source. I am using e gps on equibase and mage doesnt quite get there

The base final 3/8th on FL Derby was 38.74. Mage was 5 1/2 back at the 3/4 pole and finished -1 for a net of 4 1/2 lengths and adjusted final 3/8th of 37.8 depending on which way you want to round. This matches what HRN published a couple weeks ago. Forte would have the same figure but a more impressive final panel in the 12.4-12.6 range.

[Fightingirish51195]

Originally Posted by f2tornado

The base final 3/8th on FL Derby was 38.74. Mage was 5 1/2 back at the 3/4 pole and finished -1 for a net of 4 1/2 lengths and adjusted final 3/8th of 37.8 depending on which way you want to round. This matches what HRN published a couple weeks ago. Forte would have the same figure but a more impressive final panel in the 12.4-12.6 range.

Hmm okay. Thats quite different than the fractions here.

Edit: these are split by furlong

I cant speak to the accurteness of e gps though. i suppose figuring these things is an imperfect process

[sovereign]

Originally Posted by Fightingirish51195

Hmm okay. Thats quite different than the fractions here.

Edit: these are split by furlong

I cant speak to the accurteness of e gps though. i suppose figuring these things is an imperfect process

You have anything for the pedestrian Kingsbarns?

Thanks!

[f2tornado]

Originally Posted by sovereign

You have anything for the pedestrian Kingsbarns?

Thanks!

The final 7/16 of the LA Derby was run in 42.64. No adjustment since Kings led at both ends. The final 3/16 was run in 18.2. He basically ran consecutive 6.1 second half panels which would put his final 3/8 around 36.5 and the final panel around 12.1. Quite impressive, granted he got off easy on the engine.

[dballard125]

Originally Posted by f2tornado

After further review, I did locate Buckpasser-x 7 generations deep in Angel of Empire. That one would qualify on the Buckpasser angle and big bonus points for being a RAN. Mage, Disarm, and Skinner are also RAN with fast fractions. Hit Show is close.

I had a spread sheet with the Caris points in it but my file got deleted. Forte and Tapit were top two then there were several clustered just behind. Angel, Skinner, Mage.

You are a wealth of knowledge man. Really appreciate it. Thanks to everyone that has chimed in and offered information. Great information to have ahead of the Derby,

Tornado, what's your thoughts on Angel of Empire. He's my top choice. His performance in the Arkansas really impressed me and I was a big fan of his dad. What do you see as potential issues he faces at Churchill, and what he has going for him.

[f2tornado]

Originally Posted by dballard125

Tornado, what's your thoughts on Angel of Empire. He's my top choice. His performance in the Arkansas really impressed me and I was a big fan of his dad. What do you see as potential issues he faces at Churchill, and what he has going for him.

Hard to find much to knock on a RAN Cox/Prat Ark Derby winning horse with nice closing fractions. Perhaps my only gripe with the Ark is just about every darn horse there finished fast, making me wonder if Angel's fast fractions are really "that" fast. The 9.00 DI is also questionable. If I could only pick one RAN to bet on, I'd probably put my own money on Skinner. Stronger TG figure and likely to be a bigger price.

[dballard125]

Originally Posted by f2tornado

Hard to find much to knock on a RAN Cox/Prat Ark Derby winning horse with nice closing fractions. Perhaps my only gripe with the Ark is just about every darn horse there finished fast, making me wonder if Angel's fast fractions are really "that" fast. The 9.00 DI is also questionable. If I could only pick one RAN to bet on, I'd probably put my own money on Skinner. Stronger TG figure and likely to be a bigger price.

Appreciate the reply. It does sort of make ya go hmmmm when everyone came home fast in the Ark Derby. And that race hasnt produced much in recent history either. AoE is also somewhat pace dependent and it appears the pace could be moderate. But I love the run this horse shows and I loved his daddy. I cant leave him out of my W spot at this point.

[Gerard02]

I usually, don’t start handicapping until the post positions are drawn, but thanks Tornado for the info. I’ve got Stan Caris’ book and have profited nicely from it. However, I’m not a genius at interpreting all of the info. The family part always confuses me. However, you guys, who have Carie’s book always clarify things. I forgot who it was who used to print a spreadsheet of the final fractions and RANs. Was it you, or another guy?