Grassroots Petition, With an Audience

[DeanT]

Just passing along a petition you might want to consider signing. A few bettors, owners and trainers "advocating for better Thoroughbred horse welfare by enacting greater security measures to protect horses and the integrity of the Sport. We also want meaningful strengthening of rules providing appropriate consequences for all those that break the rules"

and

"In addition governing bodies like the California Horse Race Board should create and enforce regulations in an equitable fashion based upon higher standards as those found in the Hong Kong Jockey Club, widely considered the worldwide leader in such matters.On the eve of the Breeder's Cup, we strongly urge the California Horse Racing Board to take the lead in putting such measures in place following North America's premier two days of racing."

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/i...nce-and-safety

These folks have a chance, as they do have an audience and some pull. Please consider signing it and passing it around if you agree.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by DeanT

Just passing along a petition you might want to consider signing. A few bettors, owners and trainers "advocating for better Thoroughbred horse welfare by enacting greater security measures to protect horses and the integrity of the Sport. We also want meaningful strengthening of rules providing appropriate consequences for all those that break the rules"

and

"In addition governing bodies like the California Horse Race Board should create and enforce regulations in an equitable fashion based upon higher standards as those found in the Hong Kong Jockey Club, widely considered the worldwide leader in such matters.On the eve of the Breeder's Cup, we strongly urge the California Horse Racing Board to take the lead in putting such measures in place following North America's premier two days of racing."

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/i...nce-and-safety

These folks have a chance, as they do have an audience and some pull. Please consider signing it and passing it around if you agree.

It sounds like this should only bump the takeout about 2 or 3%! Where do I sign?

I am all for the concept but the devil is in the missing details such as how much will it cost and who will pay?

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by AndyC

It sounds like this should only bump the takeout about 2 or 3%! Where do I sign?

I am all for the concept but the devil is in the missing details such as how much will it cost and who will pay?

Yep, and it is not just the implementation but the enforcement as well that will be pricey.

[lamboguy]

i am all in favor of this, but the game has other major hurdles to get by that are or will be more pressing matters in the not to distant future.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by DeanT

Just passing along a petition you might want to consider signing. A few bettors, owners and trainers "advocating for better Thoroughbred horse welfare by enacting greater security measures to protect horses and the integrity of the Sport. We also want meaningful strengthening of rules providing appropriate consequences for all those that break the rules"

and

"In addition governing bodies like the California Horse Race Board should create and enforce regulations in an equitable fashion based upon higher standards as those found in the Hong Kong Jockey Club, widely considered the worldwide leader in such matters.On the eve of the Breeder's Cup, we strongly urge the California Horse Racing Board to take the lead in putting such measures in place following North America's premier two days of racing."

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/i...nce-and-safety

These folks have a chance, as they do have an audience and some pull. Please consider signing it and passing it around if you agree.

So, we implement cameras and we catch so and so "cheating" and the certain regulatory groups have the option to put their foot in that trainers rear end (or not) So, what might happen?

Probably nothing. Slap on the wrist penalty, IF that.

Maybe instead of spending money to install cameras and other stuff, they ought to hire a scientist to grow a backbone in a lab for certain regulatory groups who sorta could use one.

Security is one thing, but if regulatory groups let their trainer friends off with warnings and no punishments whatsoever, what's it matter how many cameras you have if the people who are supposed to enforce the rules aren't heavy handed?

[JohnGalt1]

Let me throw this out.

Suspensions don't really work, since the horses can be put in another's name.

But fines, if they are incrementally increased for every infraction would eventually force out the extreme bad apples.

Say infractions are A-C in order of major to minor infractions.

A trainer is caught doing a bad thing for the first time. Depending on the severity would receive a warning, that goes into the record, or a fine if it is more severe.

Let's say a trainer is caught giving a milkshake and the fine is $2,000, the next equivalent infraction the fine would be higher, 25%-100% higher, the third infraction fined an even larger amount, etc.

A trainer with 20+ infractions, (I'm sure there are none like that ) would have a fine of $20,000 to $100,000 or more at this point. And of course that would be in addition to all the fines paid for the previous infractions.

How many trainers can afford $200,000 or more in fines and still be in business?

So let the cheaters keep training, and paying, until they no longer can afford to train.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by JohnGalt1

Let me throw this out.

Suspensions don't really work, since the horses can be put in another's name.

But fines, if they are incrementally increased for every infraction would eventually force out the extreme bad apples.

Say infractions are A-C in order of major to minor infractions.

A trainer is caught doing a bad thing for the first time. Depending on the severity would receive a warning, that goes into the record, or a fine if it is more severe.

Let's say a trainer is caught giving a milkshake and the fine is $2,000, the next equivalent infraction the fine would be higher, 25%-100% higher, the third infraction fined an even larger amount, etc.

A trainer with 20+ infractions, (I'm sure there are none like that ) would have a fine of $20,000 to $100,000 or more at this point. And of course that would be in addition to all the fines paid for the previous infractions.

How many trainers can afford $200,000 or more in fines and still be in business?

So let the cheaters keep training, and paying, until they no longer can afford to train.

I think many of us are in unanimous agreement that the tougher the penalty, the more of a deterrent it is. Whether its more expensive fines, longer suspensions, trainers being forced to move horses to unaffiliated trainers in order to run, and even owner penalties.....but, i think the bottom line remains that if the penalties are not 'slap on the wrist' types, trainers and or owners would sue...and racing bodies don't want to be spending money on this stuff, they would rather make a backroom deal with a trainer for "perception" give him a fine or suspension he can handle and they agree to this so that there's no lawyers involved.

It doesn't make tracks and states money if they have to fight lawsuits from trainers who were given "too stiff" a fine.

[Dave Schwartz]

Suspensions don't really work, since the horses can be put in another's name.

Oh, they work. But only when one word is changed: Instead of 7 DAYS, it needs to change to 7 months, or 7 YEARS.

If the industry is serious about fixing the STEALING - and that is exactly what it is when they STEAL wagering money from the bettors who DESERVE an honest game... When they are serious about the stealing, they will remove those that commit the offenses.

It is just like illegal immigration: if they powers in charge wanted it stopped, the would raise the penalties for for hiring illegals. Make it hurt so much that the company is forced into bankruptcy to pay the fines.

The problem is that racing does not actually see it as a problem. At least not enough of a problem to warrant a fix that might actually ruin the lives of the thieves.

[Appy]

Agreed Dave, except for one detail. Trainers that cheat are stealing from the trainers who don't. It boggles my mind the way some honest trainers (horse welfare aside) persist in protecting those who are robbing them of income that is rightfully theirs.

[lamboguy]

i don't think there will be any need for these penalties pretty soon. the Penn National case is coming up in January 2015. they are treating the case as illegal influence to alter a pari mutual result. this is being done on the federal lever.

from what is my understanding, there are other jurisdictions where the feds are investigating. the problem with criminal prosecutions is you need actual evidence that the trainer or vet administered or knew full well of an illegal administration of a drug or treatment. the pennsylvania case has an eye witness and other evidence.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

Oh, they work. But only when one word is changed: Instead of 7 DAYS, it needs to change to 7 months, or 7 YEARS.

If the industry is serious about fixing the STEALING - and that is exactly what it is when they STEAL wagering money from the bettors who DESERVE an honest game... When they are serious about the stealing, they will remove those that commit the offenses.

It is just like illegal immigration: if they powers in charge wanted it stopped, the would raise the penalties for for hiring illegals. Make it hurt so much that the company is forced into bankruptcy to pay the fines.

The problem is that racing does not actually see it as a problem. At least not enough of a problem to warrant a fix that might actually ruin the lives of the thieves.

Dave, I have to say it again. The day players give back money they won on convicted offenders is the day I'll buy this argument. The industry gets the same cut either way. As I see it, it is players taking advantage of other players. As noted elsewhere, it is other trainers and owners who are the real losers here.