Tournaments

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by JeremyJet

I have a question about the Winner Take All format at HorseTourneys.

If it's a Runs w/3 - Cap 500, what's the pool if there is only 3 entries? $300? I haven't seen one go off below 5 entries yet.

yes

[BCOURTNEY]

Originally Posted by JeremyJet

I have a question about the Winner Take All format at HorseTourneys.

If it's a Runs w/3 - Cap 500, what's the pool if there is only 3 entries? $300? I haven't seen one go off below 5 entries yet.

3 is the minimum amount and yes you get 300 as the winner.

[BCOURTNEY]

Originally Posted by RunForTheRoses

WTG Blake, top billing:

https://blog.horsetourneys.com/2018/...-22/#more-4051

Thanks!

Everyone should take a second and check out the following contest listings: https://www.ntra.com/events/

There could be a contest of interest to you as a player, and there are feeders on various sites to get there.. especially if you like the poker tournament approach to handicapping, very entertaining at a low cost.

[JeremyJet]

Mr. Hellmers mentioned that he prefers the P&P format over Live play. Are one of those formats more popular than the other in the tournament world? I don't know, I'm kind of leaning towards Live play at the moment. Seems to be a more relaxed way to go about it.

Now, when I jump in and start playing, where do I go to avoid the "wise guys?" I don't want to butt heads with seasoned pros like Mr. Hellmers, Mr. Stauffer or Mr. Courtney right off the bat. I'm thinkin' Mr. Thask is more my speed ... I think he might be set up for a "bounce."

I know Vic just played in the cheapest Head-to-Head HorseTourney offers, but I don't think that's his usual game of choice. The "wise guys" I assume are hunting for big game most of the time. I'm not gonna run into you guys in a $100 Head-to-Head, am I? What about a $250 or $500 Winner Take All? A couple hundred dollars is nothing to shake a stick at, but that's pocket change for you guys, right?

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by JeremyJet

Mr. Hellmers mentioned that he prefers the P&P format over Live play. Are one of those formats more popular than the other in the tournament world? I don't know, I'm kind of leaning towards Live play at the moment. Seems to be a more relaxed way to go about it.

Now, when I jump in and start playing, where do I go to avoid the "wise guys?" I don't want to butt heads with seasoned pros like Mr. Hellmers, Mr. Stauffer or Mr. Courtney right off the bat. I'm thinkin' Mr. Thask is more my speed ... I think he might be set up for a "bounce."

I know Vic just played in the cheapest Head-to-Head HorseTourney offers, but I don't think that's his usual game of choice. The "wise guys" I assume are hunting for big game most of the time. I'm not gonna run into you guys in a $100 Head-to-Head, am I? What about a $250 or $500 Winner Take All? A couple hundred dollars is nothing to shake a stick at, but that's pocket change for you guys, right?

Your not going to run into pro players at the smaller denominations (less than say $50), but honestly I think your going to run into quality players at all levels.

I say this because tournaments are not main stream yet, the players playing them are niche and know the sport.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by JeremyJet

Mr. Hellmers mentioned that he prefers the P&P format over Live play. Are one of those formats more popular than the other in the tournament world? I don't know, I'm kind of leaning towards Live play at the moment. Seems to be a more relaxed way to go about it.

Now, when I jump in and start playing, where do I go to avoid the "wise guys?" I don't want to butt heads with seasoned pros like Mr. Hellmers, Mr. Stauffer or Mr. Courtney right off the bat. I'm thinkin' Mr. Thask is more my speed ... I think he might be set up for a "bounce."

I know Vic just played in the cheapest Head-to-Head HorseTourney offers, but I don't think that's his usual game of choice. The "wise guys" I assume are hunting for big game most of the time. I'm not gonna run into you guys in a $100 Head-to-Head, am I? What about a $250 or $500 Winner Take All? A couple hundred dollars is nothing to shake a stick at, but that's pocket change for you guys, right?

You ask several important questions...but someone else's answers won't do you any good. You need to discover what works for YOU, and what YOU are capable of accomplishing...and you aren't going to be able to do that by analyzing things to death while looking from the outside in. Having said that...here are a few recommendations of my own, which may make your "experience" a little smoother than it might otherwise be:

1.) Make up your mind to get in the game starting at the lowest level...and play 25 heads-up tournaments to see where you are at. "Why heads-up?"...you may ask? Because you need to learn to walk before you can run. If you can't beat a lone opponent...then you'll have even bigger problems beating a group.

2.) Take the game seriously...even when you play for the lowest stakes. This is hard to do if you've already gotten used to betting larger sums in parimutuel play...but it is vital to your long-term success as a player. The tournament format is a new thing...and when learning new things, we need to keep the "tuition costs" at the minimum level. When I started playing on HorseTourneys at the $40 level, I had made up my mind that I would play 25 tourneys at that level no matter what. But when I won 14 out of the first 17 tournament that I played, boredom started setting in...and I stopped taking my game seriously enough. I started just browsing the PPs, and coming up with all my picks in a matter of 10 minutes...without ever writing anything down. So...whose fault was it that I lost 5 of my next 6 tourneys? What right did I have to get "bored" in a gambling game...when I know full-well that in gambling, if you aren't "bored"...then you are playing the game WRONG? Do the "thrill-seekers" last long in the gambling arena?

3.) Set up a bankroll that will be earmarked for tournaments alone...and resist the temptation to play out-of-pocket. Endeavor to climb up (and down) the entry-fee ladder in accordance with the fluctuations of your pre-set bankroll. If you aren't beating the lower levels...then, what business have you got trying to "get even" by testing the levels higher up? I would give you my own level-progression chart...but I trust that you can come up with one on your own. The main point is that there really is no hurry. The smart thing is to start low, and build up while gathering up knowledge and experience on the cheap. And this goes for ALL of us! But we have to stop overthinking about it...and actually get into the game. You can't learn how to swim by watching a Michael Phelps video. You must GET WET!

Gambling is "democracy" at its finest...IMO. In the gambling arena...no one cares what our color or creed is...and the only obstacle to our advancement is our own knowledge, wit and maturity. If we got what it takes, then we'll make it. It's in the cards.

[Mulerider]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Y
1.) Make up your mind to get in the game starting at the lowest level...

For someone just starting in tournaments Derby Wars has the lowest minimums. There are $20 head-to-heads with $11 entry fees, seven-man contests with a $6 prize that cost $1, etc. Best way to start and learn, IMO.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

You ask several important questions...but someone else's answers won't do you any good. You need to discover what works for YOU, and what YOU are capable of accomplishing...and you aren't going to be able to do that by analyzing things to death while looking from the outside in. Having said that...here are a few recommendations of my own, which may make your "experience" a little smoother than it might otherwise be:

1.) Make up your mind to get in the game starting at the lowest level...and play 25 heads-up tournaments to see where you are at. "Why heads-up?"...you may ask? Because you need to learn to walk before you can run. If you can't beat a lone opponent...then you'll have even bigger problems beating a group.

2.) Take the game seriously...even when you play for the lowest stakes. This is hard to do if you've already gotten used to betting larger sums in parimutuel play...but it is vital to your long-term success as a player. The tournament format is a new thing...and when learning new things, we need to keep the "tuition costs" at the minimum level. When I started playing on HorseTourneys at the $40 level, I had made up my mind that I would play 25 tourneys at that level no matter what. But when I won 14 out of the first 17 tournament that I played, boredom started setting in...and I stopped taking my game seriously enough. I started just browsing the PPs, and coming up with all my picks in a matter of 10 minutes...without ever writing anything down. So...whose fault was it that I lost 5 of my next 6 tourneys? What right did I have to get "bored" in a gambling game...when I know full-well that in gambling, if you aren't "bored"...then you are playing the game WRONG? Do the "thrill-seekers" last long in the gambling arena?

3.) Set up a bankroll that will be earmarked for tournaments alone...and resist the temptation to play out-of-pocket. Endeavor to climb up (and down) the entry-fee ladder in accordance with the fluctuations of your pre-set bankroll. If you aren't beating the lower levels...then, what business have you got trying to "get even" by testing the levels higher up? I would give you my own level-progression chart...but I trust that you can come up with one on your own. The main point is that there really is no hurry. The smart thing is to start low, and build up while gathering up knowledge and experience on the cheap. And this goes for ALL of us! But we have to stop overthinking about it...and actually get into the game. You can't learn how to swim by watching a Michael Phelps video. You must GET WET!

Gambling is "democracy" at its finest...IMO. In the gambling arena...no one cares what our color or creed is...and the only obstacle to our advancement is our own knowledge, wit and maturity. If we got what it takes, then we'll make it. It's in the cards.

All good stuff. Let me add a couple of things. Not likely you'll ever hook an elite tournament professional at a $20 or $50 level.

However, you very well could from $100 on up. What happens is if I do the work to play a $1500 game. I'll use the copy feature and play all levels from $1500 to $750 all the way down to $100. Takes very little time to enter several matches. You can also double and triple up. Once an opponent registers, the site will put up another match, so I can re-enter over and over again. Playing 7 games for $200 is obviously no different than one at $1500.

This ONLY applies to Pick and Pray which I prefer over live. Not because of the "stabbing" factor. If they're stabbing you almost always have them dead to rights. The reason I like Pick N Pray is once I've done the work I can put it in (make sure you concentrate on your alternates) and not have monitor it as the day goes on.

DO NOT play anything other than what you think are your "A" tracks. Mine are NYRA and So.Cal ( shouldn't have included GP when Thask schooled me). If you think you can come with a good opinion on more than two circuits you're very wrong. If it seems easy doing more than 2 you're not doing enough work on your top two. You MUST to quote Lavar Ball "stay in your lane" You'll be facing players who do precisely that.

Keep track of the names of the players you go up against. If you have a guy who consistently beats you, avoid him. Conversely if you have been dominating a few guys. You can search for games they're entered in. You don't have to pay the entry fee to see who your opponent will be.

Another factor to consider. If you enter well in advance and a track comes off the turf or a couple horses you love scratch get the hell out. Some sites will charge you a 10% cancellation fee. But if you contact support with a compelling story and don't ask too often they'll let you re-enter in a different game with no penalty. They'll do that of you're a consistently good customer and don't take advantage of their understanding.

Good Luck

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

Your not going to run into pro players at the smaller denominations (less than say $50), but honestly I think your going to run into quality players at all levels.

I say this because tournaments are not main stream yet, the players playing them are niche and know the sport.

The amount of $$$ a contest cost is VERY MUCH commensurate with the ability levels of your opponents.

If a guy is elite I guarantee he will up the ante and play bigger games. Water finds it's level gentleman.

Just like poker. The skill level of a 1-2 no limit game will have NOTHING to do with the guys who play 25-50. The best horse players will be in the $750 and $1500 games. Enter at your own risk.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

The amount of $$$ a contest cost is VERY MUCH commensurate with the ability levels of your opponents.

If a guy is elite I guarantee he will up the ante and play bigger games. Water finds it's level gentleman.

Just like poker. The skill level of a 1-2 no limit game will have NOTHING to do with the guys who play 25-50. The best horse players will be in the $750 and $1500 games. Enter at your own risk.

A question for you, Vic:

I survey the leaderboards at HorseTourneys whenever I remember to...and I notice something that I can't explain. I'll see the same guys winning the SAME heads-up tourneys at two different entry-fee levels...but their winning scores at the higher levels are often LOWER than their scores at the lower levels. Could it be that they "freeze up" when they play for higher stakes...and they aren't as "creative" with their selections as they are when the stakes are lower?

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

A question for you, Vic:

I survey the leaderboards at HorseTourneys whenever I remember to...and I notice something that I can't explain. I'll see the same guys winning the SAME tourneys at two different entry-fee levels...but their winning scores at the higher levels are often LOWER than their scores at the lower levels. Could it be that they "freeze up" when they play for higher stakes...and they aren't as "creative" with their selections as they are when the stakes are lower?

I wouldn't call it freezing up Thask as much as I would say it's tactics driven. Being in the lead even by 10 cents late in a tourney is massively important. You can discount horses that can't catch you even if they win. And you've always got one shot at a block by using the same horse as your nearest competitor. Since being on the lead is such a valuable position gamesmanship usually in the form of conservatism often becomes a very big factor. I think that's why you're seeing the variance in winning scores.

[castaway01]

I just wanted to say that this was a fun thread and an interesting discussion. I learned a lot about these contests. I found it interesting that you don't see the big-time players in small head-to-head matchups. In daily fantasy sports you'll see the same names looking for head-to-head games from $5 on up to $5000. I guess they figure if they have an edge, the more money they have out there the more they can win with less relative risk.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by castaway01

I just wanted to say that this was a fun thread and an interesting discussion. I learned a lot about these contests. I found it interesting that you don't see the big-time players in small head-to-head matchups. In daily fantasy sports you'll see the same names looking for head-to-head games from $5 on up to $5000. I guess they figure if they have an edge, the more money they have out there the more they can win with less relative risk.

Yeah. Bots are bots and don't care the size of the fish. I wouldn't deal with those sites for all the tea in China.

[JeremyJet]

Originally Posted by castaway01

I just wanted to say that this was a fun thread and an interesting discussion. I learned a lot about these contests.

I learned a lot as well. The main contributors to this thread deserve to get something from HorseTourneys. Because of their assistance HorseTourneys will have a new customer. I'm looking to jump in on the fun this weekend.

Please explain on thing for me, though. I'm looking at this $1000 guaranteed P&P on Sunday. It has a Max of 92 entries. On the contest page it say:

minimum number of entries required to run this contest. Contest minimums must be strictly adhered to.

What's the minimum number? I don't see that information anywhere on the contest page.

[BCOURTNEY]

Originally Posted by JeremyJet

I learned a lot as well. The main contributors to this thread deserve to get something from HorseTourneys. Because of their assistance HorseTourneys will have a new customer. I'm looking to jump in on the fun this weekend.

Please explain on thing for me, though. I'm looking at this $1000 guaranteed P&P on Sunday. It has a Max of 92 entries. On the contest page it say:

minimum number of entries required to run this contest. Contest minimums must be strictly adhered to.

What's the minimum number? I don't see that information anywhere on the contest page.

The minimum numbers are just that they can support the payout, I wouldn't worry about it, if you enter and the minimum isn't met, you get your money back, if more participate you have a larger pool (and more competition)