Why aren't Programs Free?

[KingChas]

I would not say they have no clue, but the promotion/selling of the sport could be done a lot better if those in charge realized the fan/follower is as important to racing as the customer walking through door is to Wal - Mart etc.

Yeah I paid 20 Euro (about $26 US) to get into Galway Racecourse in Ireland a couple of weeks ago (not the U.K., but same point). To eat in the clubhouse, it was a minimum of 110 Euro/person (about $140 US) - I skipped that. Even with those prices, the place was very well attended. I'd guess there were 15k people there, and I was told that was a slow night (it was a Monday).

You gentlemen pay those prices?

If that's the case I sure hope... "US racing stays in dark ages".
That's Scary.........

[jonnielu]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

It's changed hands several times, but I believe the DRF is in the hands of private equity, which is typically very cash flow focused. I believe Crist did a short interview on the business side of DRF a yr or so ago, and he seemed to indicate things were on track. I think I kind of understand your handicapping approach, but you don't blame DRF for selling their product, do you?

This is yet another example of your closed mindedness and incessant need to appear as if you have great knowledge of what is being discussed. Just my humble opinion, but I would think you might actually put yourself in a position to gain new information if you could stop associating the first four words of everything you hear or read with what you do know. Give yourself a chance, you could comprehend what you hear or read, if you stayed with it for just another sentence or two.

I say, "sell you a program.... " with full faith that you already know that the DRF is not selling programs. I say, "the industry's publishing empire", somehow you get "DRF". Let me try it again.

I'd bet that (the racetracks) the industry makes more (profit) net cash with its (Equibase) publishing empire than from takeout on the betting.

jdl

[lamboguy]

Originally Posted by KingChas

You gentlemen pay those prices?

If that's the case I sure hope... "US racing stays in dark ages".
That's Scary.........

it cost over $100 a day for me before i make my first bet. i get the racing form for every track, every harness program, and i just stumbled on to a new thing yesterda at del mar, bob selwyn sheets thatcost $15.00. i also get turfday stats and i pay $150 a month now for pace figures that i think are worth it. my adw picks everything else up for the past 3 years and they seem to have no problem with it for me.

[Charlie D]

it cost over $100 a day for me before i make my first bet

I do not think people realise how much you have to shell out before you even place a bet lamboguy. This has to be a deterrent to some and it also gives other sports that don't charge for info, the upper hand

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by jonnielu

This is yet another example of your closed mindedness and incessant need to appear as if you have great knowledge of what is being discussed. Just my humble opinion, but I would think you might actually put yourself in a position to gain new information if you could stop associating the first four words of everything you hear or read with what you do know. Give yourself a chance, you could comprehend what you hear or read, if you stayed with it for just another sentence or two.

I say, "sell you a program.... " with full faith that you already know that the DRF is not selling programs. I say, "the industry's publishing empire", somehow you get "DRF". Let me try it again.

I'd bet that (the racetracks) the industry makes more (profit) net cash with its (Equibase) publishing empire than from takeout on the betting.

jdl

No worries JDL. I just placed you on ignore. You know nothing, and you'll never be as successful as Steve Crist or Andy Beyer in any respect.

[Zman179]

Originally Posted by Canadian

I'm not talking about the hard copies, but the pdf files. I just can't understand, when the sport is in such dire need of fans and bettors, that we insist on charging customers for pdf files. I can understand an actual hard copy, the printing costs, ink ect, but it just drives me crazy we are charging for that. I bet harness and have access to 5-10 tracks online in the run of a day, I like certain classes and want to do a quick scan through each card to see if something catches my eye..... I can't do that. Or, I suppose I can but it's going to cost me $25 before I get started. It's just one more way racing likes to stay in the dark ages.

I've always been a proponent of free stuff (hey, who can't afford free?), but you have to think about it economically.

Information costs money to compile; there are chartcallers to pay for their work during workouts and during the races, plus the people to put the information together, etc. If programs were free, who would pay these people? Because of lower revenues, would the quality of the programs reflect their cost? Would certain types of information be eliminated due to cost cutting? When you go to other countries the cost of their racing forms are far, far less that our forms; but, the quality of the information presented is also far, far less. To get their best information and publications, you have to go online and purchase them (i.e. the Racing Post in the UK. Their online info for 20p per race is very good, but their paper edition for £1.50 is simply basic).

The best we can ask for is to have good information at reasonable prices. Right now the online DRF is not reasonably priced; but, there are cheaper options out there to satisfy your pp requirements.

[Charlie D]

Zman

I'm talking free basic racing info. If you want say CJ, Beyer, Moss, Bris numbers you should pay for those just like you have to pay for Timeform ratings.

[KingChas]

Originally Posted by Zman179

The best we can ask for is to have good information at reasonable prices. Right now the online DRF is not reasonably priced; but, there are cheaper options out there to satisfy your pp requirements.

I don't have a problem with the Saratoga Special DRF 40/$40.

$1 a card.

[rmania]

Originally Posted by Canadian

I'm not talking about the hard copies, but the pdf files. I just can't understand, when the sport is in such dire need of fans and bettors, that we insist on charging customers for pdf files. I can understand an actual hard copy, the printing costs, ink ect, but it just drives me crazy we are charging for that. I bet harness and have access to 5-10 tracks online in the run of a day, I like certain classes and want to do a quick scan through each card to see if something catches my eye..... I can't do that. Or, I suppose I can but it's going to cost me $25 before I get started. It's just one more way racing likes to stay in the dark ages.

Not sure about all tracks but I do know that pdf versions of the programs are available for free at SoCal tracks.

[Charlie D]

To get their best information and publications, you have to go online and purchase them (i.e. the Racing Post in the UK. Their online info for 20p per race is very good, but their paper edition for £1.50 is simply basic).

You don't need to pay anything to get the Past performances of a horse and it is this US racing should be giving away free of charge, just like in UK and other countries.

[jelly]

Originally Posted by Charlie D

You don't need to pay anything to get the Past performances of a horse and it is this US racing should be giving away free of charge, just like in UK and other countries.

Agree,this is one of the big reasons that is holding the Industry back.

[DeanT]

Originally Posted by Charlie D

NFL. - FREE info available
Euro soccer - FREE info avaliable

Loads of other sports/ betting mediums offer free info too. They don't charge you for a pack of cards to play poker do they???

US racing is in dark ages as OP stated.

"Paying for a racing program is like going to a restaurant and being charged to look at the menu"
anonymous

[Charlie D]

Jelly


This issue, is just one of many that holds it back i think.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by DeanT

"Paying for a racing program is like going to a restaurant and being charged to look at the menu"
anonymous

I heard this exchange at an OTB in Niles IL, between a newly appointed manager, and an employee:

EMPLOYEE: "You would not believe how many people complain about the price of the Form..."

MANAGER: " Idiots! Do they even know, that we don't even make a profit on this stuff?"

[badcompany]

Because the industry is still clinging to the notion that it's a priviledge to bet on these majestic animals.

It reminds me of a story comedian Pat Cooper told about Lola Falana. She once got off a plane and exclaimed, "No autographs" but there was no one asking for one.