ARE WE BEING CHEATED ?

[Vegas711]

Saturday night I played several race tracks the odds of the horse at the top of the straights all dropped. I know that late money from simulcast tracks come in late but there is the possibility that money may be comming into the pools from unnamed sources after the races have started.It just happened too many times.

If handicappers at the tracks would record the odds changes for all horses including those that are at the back of the pack this would answer this question.If only the lead horses at the top 1/4 pole are having their odds drop then the mutual system would be suspect.

[Zaf]

I have been playing a lot of small tracks recently (small pools) and have actually had many front runners rise in odds during the race and go on to win. I will keep a closer eye on what you are observing Vegas711.

ZAFONIC

[banacek]

It seems to me that when I play one of the favourites the odds tend to drop, but when I have a longer odds horse they tend to go up. But that's just my feeling - had a horse today who was 7-1 when they left and I got 9-1 - that's a nice bonus. BUt when I have a 5-2 shot seems like they end up 9-5 or 2-1 a lot.

[dancingbrave]

I'm not sure you're being cheated there but the practice of the tracks rounding down to the lower 10 cents borders on criminal. There have been many times I have seen when looking at the final pool totals the payout should say $5.98 to $2 but they pay $5-90.


So in fact the pool take is NOT as advertised it is a fair bit more especially on the very short price favorites.

[Buddha]

Like many have said before me over time, but late money is a big amount. I did a quick 1 race research project, and something to the extent of about 50% of money at Tampa came after 1 MTP was on the screen. In otherwards, the bulk of the money has yet to be posted to the system when the horses are getting ready to load. Also, most tote cycles are in the neighborhood of 45-60 seconds, so they arent as up to date as we may think they are. Now when playing a track like NYRA, the amount bet after 1MTP wasnt as high, but something like 35-40% or so after 1MTP.

[Niko]

I don't know if it's late money or simulcast money or both but it's DAMN frustrating. Enough to get me to cut back on bets at some tracks. Don't have the time to do a detailed study, just a general observation. Doubt the tracks will do anything about it though. They tried it once and don't remember why the backed off other than complaints because people can't tell the difference between 1 and 0 when they're on the track compared to being loaded in the gate.

At NYRA, SoCal, and Florida, about half the money comes in from the simulcast outlets after the race goes off. At other tracks, as much as 70% of the money comes in after the race goes off. The money usually reflects whatever the simulcast players view the overlays are as the horses approach the starting gate. If a horse is 5/2, and the public thinks it's the best horse, it will go way down, perhaps to odds-on.

[twindouble]

Originally Posted by midnight

At NYRA, SoCal, and Florida, about half the money comes in from the simulcast outlets after the race goes off. At other tracks, as much as 70% of the money comes in after the race goes off. The money usually reflects whatever the simulcast players view the overlays are as the horses approach the starting gate. If a horse is 5/2, and the public thinks it's the best horse, it will go way down, perhaps to odds-on.

I think the fact that the money is in cyber space after the race has started makes for that uncomfortable feeling we all get, ESP after that electronic pick 6 Breeders Cup fix, what three years ago? We still don't know exactly what the fix was through out the the system or if every track and outlet complied.


T.D.

[Hosshead]

Out of ALL the Simo Money that Doesn't show up until 1 Min or even after the race is off:

I wonder - How Much was actually bet several minutes (3,4,5,6 min) before the race, THEN HELD by the simo, then DUMPED into the pools at the last second ? If so, then that has to stop !!

[Zaf]

The 6th race at Remington finished about 5 minutes ago, and the track announcer announced there will be a delay before posting the prices because all of the out of state simulcast money is not in the pool yet

ZAFONIC

[Zaf]

In the 7th at Remington, my horse was stalking 4th on the rail the whole way, he pulled 4 wide into the stretch and drew away in the final 1/8. He was 7/2 on the board throughout the race. When they posted the price he paid $7.00. So the money does come in very late.

ZAFONIC

[twindouble]

Originally Posted by zafonic

In the 7th at Remington, my horse was stalking 4th on the rail the whole way, he pulled 4 wide into the stretch and drew away in the final 1/8. He was 7/2 on the board throughout the race. When they posted the price he paid $7.00. So the money does come in very late.

ZAFONIC

What I dislike about it the most is, I think it just adds fuel to fire of mistrust when it comes to cheating and effects the industry as a whole. What the heck, how would anyone feel paying for a pound beef, then it turns into 10 oz when you get it home. Reason enough to shop elsewhere and call them crooks. You would think they would smarten up and leave nothing to speculation, they have had to many negitives as it is. When the money is in, load the gate, simple as that, I would think.

[Zaf]

I agree with you Twindouble and then there would be no doubt or perception of funny business.

In the 10th at MNR the #1 shot out of the gate, had an easy lead the whole way and drew off easy. He gradually drifted up from 7-1 to 9-1 while this was happening. I see this scenario often, especially with non-favs. So there is a good possibility this is paranoia and everything is on the up & up.


But Twindouble you are right, this is 2005 and we have the technology available to have real time data and leave no doubts in the minds of the public.

ZAFONIC

[AngelEyes]

A solution to resolve problems discussed above is to bet at a betting exchange.
At least odds you negotiate are fixed. From my experience I have noticed that big money frequently comes in late at Monmouth Park - usually on the favourite. Many times you see odds drop from 5/2 to 8/5 and even lower during the race.

[Zaf]

I play alot at MNR , HOO, RP, HOU, etc. I don't think I would find a lot of liquidity for these venues

ZAFONIC