Pinnacle

[trying2win]

I have an account at PINNACLE too, so I'm aware of them cutting off bets before post time. I also have another account at a racebook called ALLHORSERACING.COM (I needed this other racebook, because while Pinnacle covers most thoroughbred tracks I bet, they don't cover some of the harness tracks I like to play).

Both PINNACLE AND ALLHORSERACING have similar trends...for example, if it says 4 minutes to post at the BRISNET site, it'll probably read 2 minutes to post at those two racebooks. I can only speculate that they do this, to allow themselves to send in some bets into rebate shops or into the mutuel pools for "risk mangement" purposes. Would my speculation be correct?

Once in awhile, when I'm betting the races online and I get behind schedule, I am too late sometimes to send in a bet to PINNACLE. That's where the back-up plan has helped...i.e. send in a bet to HPI. No rebate from HPI (well not quite true...get some small "reward points" from them), but at least I can still get a bet in at HPI at the last minute at times.


T2W

As near as I can figure, and this is just my impression, Pinnacle sets some tracks on scheduled post, meaning that whenever the scheduled post time is (the one listed by Equibase in the past performances) becomes the time the race is closed. I've seen Hoosier closed at that time when there were actually 8 minutes to post.

As far as the wagering interface goes, that's updated from the feed the rebate shop sends them, and the shop gets it (I believe) from Autotote. Why Pinnacle won't let that same signal update them as to when the race is closed is a mystery.

No matter. The only bets I make at Pinnacle are WPS bets that I make if I'm not going be watching the tote (e.g. if I make bets and then go out and do something else). I'm getting 8% from CRIS on exotics and 4% from another place (at the level I play). I don't need the aggravation from Pinnacle.

[kingfin66]

T2W,

The big problem I see with Allhorseracing is that they only pay up to 300/1 odds for exotics. The full WPS odds are fine if that is all you bet. The 3% rebate is okay too, but the exotics odds just don't cut it. I only jump into a trifecta if I think there is a good chance of it paying 1000/1 plus.

So are there any offshore racebooks, besides Pinnacle, that pay full track odds for all wagers?

[trying2win]

Hello Kingfin,

I only found one other racebook that pays full track odds on all the exotics. Can't remember the name though. I do remember this other place had lots of service charges on some deposits and withdrawals of funds.

As for using ALLHORSERACING.COM, I mainly play win or place bets, so the ceiling for exotic payoffs doesn't concern me.

I'm still interested in LINK2BET. I believe they allow Canadians to bet with them. I think the bets go directly into the pools of the host tracks. The mystery is, that I read somewhere that a player can earn some rebates using LINK2BET. I still haven't found all the details about the rebates yet, so I haven't signed up with them.


T2W

My understanding is that the money bet at Link2Bet goes directly into the track pools. They're very popular with the greyhound players.

[trying2win]

Midnight,

Thanks for the info. Do you know anything about which tracks give rebates at the LINK2BET site?


T2W

[Geekyguy]

Like it or not, Pinnacle is a sportsbook first and foremost. Days like yesterday are particularly bad because they're taking football and basketball while the races are going on, something like 50-75 games total, plus all the props, halves and quarters, totals, etc.

For some tracks (like Pha and Tam), they can't lay off through a rebate shop so they have to book the action themselves, and they'll close a race with up to three minutes to go as a matter of course. Grading is also a problem, because they often take up to a half-hour or more to grade a race, so make sure you are funded if you are a small player. One other problem I've noticed with Pinnacle is that sometimes you go to click a bet type and no horses turn up.

On the upside, the 7 percent rebate (actually 7.5 percent because the 7 percent generates another 0.5 percent in second-generation rebates) can't be beat. Pinnacle has effectively turned each player into their own OTB, and the track still gets their cut on a majority of the action. I'd also imagine on a big race where Pinnacle can balance the action that they'd do very well, or in an evenly-matched four-horse field at NYRA where they can just hold all the money and grab the takeout themselves.

[oexplayer68]

Kingfin66- That sux mightily, and I am sorry for your loss. Hopefully the horse racing gods will make it up to you. I had this tri myself, and were wondering how you came up with "Guacamole". Nice handicapping either way!

Hosshead- I understand your logic, but one other thing to consider is that in addition to the rebates, wagers are not placed into the pools. Now for an exotic player like me, this is a much greater advantage than the rebate. I have a stack of W-2's here, but it is much smaller than usual since I switched to Pinnacle. I can't tell you how many times I've had one of only a few trifectas, which if pooled would have resulted in much lower payouts. Think about how this adds up over the course of days, weeks, months, and years.

[rokitman]

Originally Posted by midnight

My understanding is that the money bet at Link2Bet goes directly into the track pools. They're very popular with the greyhound players.

It is the former Euro offtrack, which was pari-mutuel. http://www.euroofftrack.com/

And sounds like it still is. From their TOS:

3. In the event the information an account holder provides to Link2bet is not transmitted to, received by, or otherwise accepted by the racetrack for any reason (including, but not limited to, mechanical, communication and human error or failure), no wager will have been placed (or deemed to have been placed) on behalf of the account holder at the racetrack and no money will be debited from the account holder's account. Under no circumstances will Link2bet "book" the wager, or otherwise be held responsible for the information not being transmitted to, received by, or otherwise accepted by the racetrack.

[Hosshead]

Link2bet -They also don't take bets from Calif., New Jersey, Nev. etc.

oexplayer -Before Pinny, Were your exotic bets affecting the pools so much because of huge bets at major tracks, or avg. bets at small tracks ?

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by Valuist

I have had the same thing happen; horses not even in the starting gate and go punch in the ticket only to see "race is closed". I now make all my wagers at least 5 minutes before post to avoid getting shut out.

The problem with betting that early is that usually the decision to bet or pass is odds related and the last couple of minutes decide which way to go.

[cj]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

The problem with betting that early is that usually the decision to bet or pass is odds related and the last couple of minutes decide which way to go.

At the smaller tracks, it is a total crapshoot anyway. Sometimes the odds go down, but usually up unless you are playing chalk horse.

If I'm playing a lower priced horse, I'll assume at least two clicks lower when they go closed, though sometimes even that isn't enough.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by cj

At the smaller tracks, it is a total crapshoot anyway. Sometimes the odds go down, but usually up unless you are playing chalk horse.

If I'm playing a lower priced horse, I'll assume at least two clicks lower when they go closed, though sometimes even that isn't enough.

When I vacation in Florida I go to the dog track for fun. Sometimes when I leave the window I make the favorite without even betting much .

[kingfin66]

Originally Posted by oexplayer68

Kingfin66- That sux mightily, and I am sorry for your loss. Hopefully the horse racing gods will make it up to you. I had this tri myself, and were wondering how you came up with "Guacamole". Nice handicapping either way!

Thanks Oexplayer. The gods got my ship partially righted as I had the tri in race 8. I have a keen interest in any race where 2yo are going 7.0 furlongs.

As for how I came up with Guacamole. let me clarify that I did not have him as a winner. He was included in my group of horses that I was using around a key. When I try to hit a trifecta like that, I will use one, and sometimes two, key horses. I will key those horses in all three spots in the tri. My key horse for this race was actually the #3, which finished 2nd. My secondary key horse would have been the #8, although I had decided to go with just the #3 and use 7 other horses. The total to part wheel one with 7 others in all three positions is $126.

I still haven't told you why I liked Guac. I use TMM. This is well documented ion Pace Advantage. Using TMM/Handicapping Magic methods, he was a reverser, meaning that he came out of the same last race as another horse (#4) with a lower finish. He also had solid ratings in relation to the other horses. This field was very, very competitive on the basis of ratings alone. Also, I like to believe that I have an excellent feel for this type of races and he just had the look of a horse that could handle the distance. It was very hard eliminating horses as contenders in this race, which is why I had to go so deep in the trifecta. If only I had hemmed and hawed for about a minute less, I might have got the bet in.

[Pace Cap'n]

Originally Posted by kingfin66

I sent TVG an e-mail to express my displeasure. My displeasure grew when they gave me a canned reply:

Dear Pinnacle Sports Client,


Pinnacle Sports attempts to leave races available as close to post as possible. Please note there is no exact time before post when races are taken down. For risk protection, some tracks may be taken down earlier than others.




It's good to see they care

I think the highlighted sentence is the key to this thing.

The following is just supposition on my part. I do wager with Pinnacle but I'm a small bettor who hasn't been affected by the early closings.


We know they handicap the horses, as they offer the head-to-head matchups. Most likey they use software to handicap and to set an odds line while simultaneously monitoring wagers on each particular race. Depending on the type or competiveness of each race, they may be willing to subject themselves to more or less exposure on that race. When their program tells them "That's it", presto, race closed.

That program probably contains filters and algorithms that weight the recent success of the bettor, his current selections, and the size and type of bet to decide if the race is still "open".

I would not be surprised if some bettors get shut out in the post parade while others can bet right up to "They're off".