Rebate Shops ?

[AngelEyes]

Having a difficult time finding examples of rebate shops . Several threads here regarding the subject but no examples are ever mentioned. The only one I have come across is Link2bet. I would appreciate any recommendations especially ones that offer NYRA tracks . Is Youbet a rebate shop ?

[Nickle]

IRG is very strong and is called International Racing Group and is part of Youbet and offers health rebates.

I do not know about NY though.


http://www.betirg.com/

[oexplayer68]

Do a google on "Tonkawa". They cater to many of the large players from what I hear.

[twindouble]

Originally Posted by Nickle

IRG is very strong and is called International Racing Group and is part of Youbet and offers health rebates.

I do not know about NY though.


http://www.betirg.com/

I didn't read anywhere on IRG's site where they offer rebates.

Thanks,

T.D.

[linrom1]

IRG

While there is no information on the IRG website about rebates, it promoinently displays its policy about compying with all US Sate and Federal regulations including reporting to the IRS. IRG even threatens that it will not credit you with any winnings unless it recieves a signed WG-2 from you.

Its webiste doesn't even prooperly display tags, yet this outfit somehow managed to generate handle of $215 million in 2004. According to a CBS report:

Youbet officials have said that IRG will continue to award rebates to its customers, though the company will not market IRG's rebates to existing Youbet customers. The SEC documents indicated that IRG was awarding an average of 12 percent of each bet back in the form of a rebate. The documents also indicated that IRG paid an average of 5 percent for each track signal, a much higher rate than the 3 percent industry average.

Since Youbet is a publicly traded corporation, I doubt that they'll be able to maintain large bettors identities hidden.(Trainers,Barns, Jockeys and Owners)

[highabove]

A Drf. article states ( Sec records shows IRG was paying an average rebate of 12% on bets wagered by customers.) I wonder how much you need to wager for those kind of rebates.

[linrom1]

Originally Posted by highabove

A Drf. article states ( Sec records shows IRG was paying an average rebate of 12% on bets wagered by customers.) I wonder how much you need to wager for those kind of rebates.

Who knows, but, it appears that regular Youbet players are footing those huge rebates.

[Dave Schwartz]

Linrom,

How do you figure that the other players are paying the rebate?

Look at how it works.

1. Money is bet at the track.

2. Track removes take. Let's call it 17% .

3. State takes (say) 1.5% of the 17%, leaving 15.5%.

4. Track pays expenses, purses, maintenance, etc. and the remainder is called "profit."

5. When you go to Las Vegas and play at a parimutuel racebook, the racebook receives a significant commission to take the wagers. Let's say 12%.

6. You, as a big player, say to the management of the racebook, "Listen, I am a big player. I will give you $100,000 per day of my action if you will give me 10 of your 12% back as a rebate."

7. Hotel says, "Hmmm. $2k per day, no risk. And if we don't say 'yes,' somebody else will."


That is how the rebate system works. Oh, there are two exceptions:

A. It is illegal for a Nevada casino to offer rebates, so you won't find that in Nevada.
so...
B. The action has moved offshore to the parimutuel rebate shops.


Notice that at no point was any other player's payoffs mentioned. They are simply not affected.

The rebate money is paid from the cut of the racebook, not the player.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[garyoz]

[QUOTE=linrom1
Since Youbet is a publicly traded corporation, I doubt that they'll be able to maintain large bettors identities hidden.(Trainers,Barns, Jockeys and Owners)[/QUOTE]

Corporations don't generally identify their customers. It is considered competitive information. An exception would be if one particularly large customer could have an adverse effect on the performance of a company. Then that would generally be acknowledged in an offering perspective under risk factors and might be included in the 10-K Annual Report under the Management Discussion and Analysis section. But, corporations are under no obligation to disclose their customers. You're lucky if you get more than minimal detail of revenues in the line of business discussion.

[Geekyguy]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

Linrom,

How do you figure that the other players are paying the rebate?

Look at how it works.

1. Money is bet at the track.

2. Track removes take. Let's call it 17% .

3. State takes (say) 1.5% of the 17%, leaving 15.5%.

4. Track pays expenses, purses, maintenance, etc. and the remainder is called "profit."

5. When you go to Las Vegas and play at a parimutuel racebook, the racebook receives a significant commission to take the wagers. Let's say 12%.

6. You, as a big player, say to the management of the racebook, "Listen, I am a big player. I will give you $100,000 per day of my action if you will give me 10 of your 12% back as a rebate."

7. Hotel says, "Hmmm. $2k per day, no risk. And if we don't say 'yes,' somebody else will."


That is how the rebate system works. Oh, there are two exceptions:

A. It is illegal for a Nevada casino to offer rebates, so you won't find that in Nevada.
so...
B. The action has moved offshore to the parimutuel rebate shops.


Notice that at no point was any other player's payoffs mentioned. They are simply not affected.

The rebate money is paid from the cut of the racebook, not the player.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

This is correct: the rebate players simply demand a lower takeout in the form of lower overhead, while the idiots keep the lights on at the track and the OTB parlors. Bookies used to undercut OTB and the track all the time by paying 10 percent over the track payout, and they didn't go broke doing it.

The only way to level the playing field again would be to lower the takeout to a flat 7.5 percent everywhere.

[linrom1]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

Linrom,

How do you figure that the other players are paying the rebate?

Look at how it works.

1. Money is bet at the track.

2. Track removes take. Let's call it 17% .

3. State takes (say) 1.5% of the 17%, leaving 15.5%.

4. Track pays expenses, purses, maintenance, etc. and the remainder is called "profit."

5. When you go to Las Vegas and play at a parimutuel racebook, the racebook receives a significant commission to take the wagers. Let's say 12%.

6. You, as a big player, say to the management of the racebook, "Listen, I am a big player. I will give you $100,000 per day of my action if you will give me 10 of your 12% back as a rebate."

7. Hotel says, "Hmmm. $2k per day, no risk. And if we don't say 'yes,' somebody else will."


That is how the rebate system works. Oh, there are two exceptions:

A. It is illegal for a Nevada casino to offer rebates, so you won't find that in Nevada.
so...
B. The action has moved offshore to the parimutuel rebate shops.


Notice that at no point was any other player's payoffs mentioned. They are simply not affected.

The rebate money is paid from the cut of the racebook, not the player.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

Are you saying that 5% take out is sufficent for racetracks to atleast break even?

[Dave Schwartz]

Appaerntly they think so.

[garyoz]

Originally Posted by Geekyguy

The only way to level the playing field again would be to lower the takeout to a flat 7.5 percent everywhere.

What percentage of that represents state taxes? And, what states to expect will willingly reduce taxes on parimutual wagering. If you read Steve Christ's book you can see what a fight it was just to get the win takeout reduced in New York. And, that looks like it is going to be reversed. To the state horseplayers are addicted idiots. No different than slot players.

Rebate shops are here to stay. They have segmented the horseplayer market, something that the racetracks were not allowed or were reluctant to do.

[trigger]

How are the tracks able to charge only 3% of handle to the Rebate shops when the State tax on handle is usually more than 3% and can run up to 10 or 11% on exotic bets?

[ponypro]

Ever since the youbet press release I have been trying to find IRG. If you do a search on the web it doesnt show up. I called youbet customer service and they said they would be back in touch with me. They havent called back or emailed. So far no luck until I came here

Thanks again

Tom