PA Syndicate

[Relwob Owner]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

I take you feel my post was unncessary. Whatever.

I think your post was totally necessary from your end and perfectly timed. You have people openly discussing how to form a business arrangement on your site so that makes it necessary for you to post such a disclaimer. Thanks for providing a forum where this and other discussions can take place.

[serp]

If you all get this up and going would you all consider keeping a public log of some sort of the process and decisions made and your successes and failures along the way? I know that would be a lot of work but it sure would be a great resource for people like myself who have always thought about joining a syndicate but really have no experience on the inside.

Also want to say to PA, the disclaimer was warranted. I would have put it up there too.

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by tbwinner

These are all great questions and I will attempt to answer what I think here:

We need an LLC or partnership manager. I recommend the LLC format due to the fact of liability protection and having the integrity of being a "business entity". This will be the one responsible for the financial matters and the contact person for the trainer (trainer won't want to talk to 10 partners 2-3x a week about the same horse).

A conservative estimate is the best to use for the initial capital as to avoid any future cash calls. The amount for the claim plus 4 months training expenses ($10-$12k depending where we go) is a conservative estimate.

Managing partner will have final say. Since this is a group PA effort we will all collaborate on spots to race in, what level, along with input from the trainer.

Owners with 5% or greater ownership need to be licensed. In NY it is 3% I believe. We should limit ownership to less than 5% (like 4.75% shares) as to avoid licensing issues.

If a partner wants out, other partners can "bid" to buy their stake.

Purses will be distributed once there is the 4 month training expense "reserve" in the bank as to avoid cash calls.

Anyone think this sound like a good basis?

The business model looks pretty good. Good luck!

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by Si2see

Guys I thought I would give a little bit of info here. My name is Jason. I have posted before about how happy I am with Tom Schell as my trainer, and to this day still feel as good about using him as I did day one. Preakness weekend marks 5 years ( hard to believe Tom ) of us being together in this game which is remarkable. He is a class act, and just needs the chance on being able to claim horses, or be given 2 year olds. That is what I feel like he is best at. Yes he does not win 30% of the races, but it isn't lack of effort or trying.... it is because he does not have the horses. Look up Surrealdeal. He ran second in the Swale stakes. Tom had him as a two year old. And look up 2 of our old horses Judge's Case, or Silversandsoftime. Both horses Tom claimed for me and my partner, but went on to do very well for us.
If you were to use him as a trainer I would interested in helping out, or do whatever is needed for a small percentage of the horse... The only help I would need is the legal help/ agreements to get started. I have talked to Tom about doing this for about 2 years, but everytime I try most people are all talk. Good luck guys, Pm me if you have any questions. Jason

I had used Tom as a trainer last year, he is a very good horseman and I would recommend him to anyone who is looking for a trainer in south Florida. Since we are now out of the claiming aspect of this business and into breeding I have no horses to send him.

[turninforhome10]

As somebody who has seen these things go south when partners can't agree, why don't you guys post the horses you see as good claims and follow them for 2 or 3 races and see how you do. As far as moving horses up the ladder, why? Find a good n2l for 12.5-15k and you will make money just getting the conditions even dropping the horse. Conditions are your best friend. Got a horse one time cause I was owed a boarding bill, 850$. Broke his Maiden, got his 2l and 3l and made 45k in 8 months. Gave him away, when I saw his n4 was gonna be too tough and now he is a very happy hunter prospect. CLAIM FOR CONDITIONS. Look for State breds to. Pennsylvania is good place for this.
Here is also a good story. Was talking to a woman at KEE fall sale, who was selling a stakes winning Storm Boot mare. The mare was IA bred so when she was found at Mountaineer running for a nickel, the lady claimed her, brought her home fattened her up, and ran her back through the sale ring 6 weeks later for 45k. Screw racing, I would take 40 k to make a horse happy and have for less than 3 months.
I wish you guys the best off luck and in the famous words of Pittsburgh Phil
"Many killings are attempted but few are accomplished" and "Winners repeat frequently while the defeated are apt to be defeated almost continuously"

[Learned Hand35]

I love the idea and would have been all in last year. My wife and I recently found out we are going to be parents for the first time. Accordingly, the household budget will need a serious adjustment. I am still very much interested if financial changes on the horizon allow.

Would the syndicate consider offering a share prorated for a proportional contribution by me in the form of legal work?

[Relwob Owner]

Originally Posted by turninforhome10

As somebody who has seen these things go south when partners can't agree, why don't you guys post the horses you see as good claims and follow them for 2 or 3 races and see how you do. As far as moving horses up the ladder, why? Find a good n2l for 12.5-15k and you will make money just getting the conditions even dropping the horse. Conditions are your best friend. Got a horse one time cause I was owed a boarding bill, 850$. Broke his Maiden, got his 2l and 3l and made 45k in 8 months. Gave him away, when I saw his n4 was gonna be too tough and now he is a very happy hunter prospect. CLAIM FOR CONDITIONS. Look for State breds to. Pennsylvania is good place for this.
Here is also a good story. Was talking to a woman at KEE fall sale, who was selling a stakes winning Storm Boot mare. The mare was IA bred so when she was found at Mountaineer running for a nickel, the lady claimed her, brought her home fattened her up, and ran her back through the sale ring 6 weeks later for 45k. Screw racing, I would take 40 k to make a horse happy and have for less than 3 months.
I wish you guys the best off luck and in the famous words of Pittsburgh Phil
"Many killings are attempted but few are accomplished" and "Winners repeat frequently while the defeated are apt to be defeated almost continuously"

Very good points about claiming for conditions and some of the best runs I have had were claiming maidens like you were describing and getting them through their conditions.

I have seen people discussing taking an optional claimer type. One thing to be heads up on there is that optional claiming races can be doubly tough because trainers who have certain "magic" ways can often dominate them. This is due to the fact that they can put them in for the tag knowing that they wont be likely to be taken because new connections may not be able to discover the same kind of "magic".

You mention posting thoughts on possible claims and I am not sure if you mean on here....if so, I would discourage that simply because you dont want current owners knowing you are following their horses, as they may change course to avoid being taken.

Just some thoughts I hope may help.

[turninforhome10]

"You mention posting thoughts on possible claims and I am not sure if you mean on here....if so, I would discourage that simply because you dont want current owners knowing you are following their horses, as they may change course to avoid being taken."

If you run horses where they belong, you can't worry about them getting claimed. Worked for a lady one time, that was so sick about her horses getting claimed she would take them back for more than they worth. People figured this out and would hold her horses for ransom as they knew she would take them back. When we took over as trainers, we ran the bad ones for a tag as there were 85 horses all IA bred. Imagine the surprise, when we claimed back nothing and culled half the barn. If owners change their course of action based on someone knowing that the horse is being watched most of the time they run the horse where it does not belong, and in the long run you will probably get them cheaper. I was taught that a horse is born with the qualities that make them a racehorse or not and it is up to the trainer to find the class they belong in."You can't make chicken soup from chicken s**t"

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally Posted by cj

That simply is not true Tom. Why would you think that? All I asked for was numbers. Hell, I might invest. You could have responded with numbers without trying to make me look like a bad guy.

Hey Guys..Here is my lifetime record for the cheap claimers that I have .had..Dont forget these horses were discarded by other people who didnt give them a chance.There was 1 stakes placed horse in this bunch that finished 2nd in a 150k @ 80-1..A horse can be claimed under McSchell_Racing Inc..The horse can race before 30 days and then can be transfered into the new ownership..You dont ever have to worry about your funds as they are safe with me.The choice is yours!

1054-85-99-120....Earnings 1.068,783.00

[massman]

count me in.

[PICSIX]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

And why shouldn't there be one? With a thread title like "PA Syndicate," one might get the wrong impression that I have something to do with what may evolve from here.

Therefore, when someone feels they have gotten screwed (and that's probably inevitable given the nature of the beast), they won't be tempted to send me angry emails or legal correspondance demanding I make them whole again...

I probably should have chosen a different title. I can see where you are coming from.

Mike

[Scav]

Originally Posted by tbwinner

These are all great questions and I will attempt to answer what I think here:

We need an LLC or partnership manager. I recommend the LLC format due to the fact of liability protection and having the integrity of being a "business entity". This will be the one responsible for the financial matters and the contact person for the trainer (trainer won't want to talk to 10 partners 2-3x a week about the same horse).

A conservative estimate is the best to use for the initial capital as to avoid any future cash calls. The amount for the claim plus 4 months training expenses ($10-$12k depending where we go) is a conservative estimate.

Managing partner will have final say. Since this is a group PA effort we will all collaborate on spots to race in, what level, along with input from the trainer.

Owners with 5% or greater ownership need to be licensed. In NY it is 3% I believe. We should limit ownership to less than 5% (like 4.75% shares) as to avoid licensing issues.

If a partner wants out, other partners can "bid" to buy their stake.

Purses will be distributed once there is the 4 month training expense "reserve" in the bank as to avoid cash calls.

Anyone think this sound like a good basis?

As a general manager for a horse racing operation, this is, imo, a great way to start and very well thought out. One person making the decisions, the 4 month reserve should be perfect, I wouldn't go any less. You should also have a separate checking account set up specifically for the LLC.

For what it is worth, I wouldn't race in Florida at all. I would definiately consider claiming out of Florida, but I would then send the horse straight to Philly Park. We have three horses there and hoping to get more in the near future. Purses are great for the quality you are up against.

[Relwob Owner]

Originally Posted by turninforhome10

"You mention posting thoughts on possible claims and I am not sure if you mean on here....if so, I would discourage that simply because you dont want current owners knowing you are following their horses, as they may change course to avoid being taken."

If you run horses where they belong, you can't worry about them getting claimed. Worked for a lady one time, that was so sick about her horses getting claimed she would take them back for more than they worth. People figured this out and would hold her horses for ransom as they knew she would take them back. When we took over as trainers, we ran the bad ones for a tag as there were 85 horses all IA bred. Imagine the surprise, when we claimed back nothing and culled half the barn. If owners change their course of action based on someone knowing that the horse is being watched most of the time they run the horse where it does not belong, and in the long run you will probably get them cheaper. I was taught that a horse is born with the qualities that make them a racehorse or not and it is up to the trainer to find the class they belong in."You can't make chicken soup from chicken s**t"

My point wasnt whether you should not worry about them getting claimed it was about not putting any pre-claim thoughts on a public message board.

I agree that you you shouldnt worry about getting them claimed but your example proved my point about not posting any strategies on here. That lady, like many others are, was worried about getting claimed. If someone like that is dropping a horse in for a tag and finds out someone is interested, they are likely to scratch and you would lose your shot at the horse.

I would be hesitant to post any sort of strategy or anything involving what horses you would like to buy on this or any other public forum.

[Mineshaft]

People in so far:



Mineshaft
Shemp
HandyKapper
tbwinner
newtothegame
PICSIX
Tape Reader
DaHoss2002
massman

[Mineshaft]

My computer at home is fried im using work computer. Hoping to be back up and running Saturday hopefully so my posts will be limited and nothing for me at night.



If anyone wants in just state that you would like to join and i will update the people who are in.