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10-07-2016, 11:22 PM
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#316
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,470
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On HRRN today, The Pope suggested the best move with KI would have been to retire him immediately after he beat AP and take the legend of being the last horse to defeat AP to the breeding shed with him.
Probably would have been.
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Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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10-07-2016, 11:29 PM
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#317
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Just another Facist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Now in Houston
Posts: 52,619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsetup
I don't get the infatuation with this horse by so many but he's not much and he's not winning unless they set him up real nice. As for today, you might want to add that he had a pretty nice trip otherwise. Sat inside and behind the entire race, never got in the mix until the last eighth. What horse doesn't finish well with that trip?
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I agree. Reminds me of exaggerator. Typical closer, needs a setup etc.
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10-07-2016, 11:41 PM
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#318
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsetup
I don't get the infatuation with this horse by so many but he's not much and he's not winning unless they set him up real nice. As for today, you might want to add that he had a pretty nice trip otherwise. Sat inside and behind the entire race, never got in the mix until the last eighth. What horse doesn't finish well with that trip?
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I'm far from infatuated with this horse. I think he's a G2-G3 animal on his best day. But give Pletcher has literally won dozens of stakes with horses like this switched to him so it wouldn't shock me if he improved him.
I think you're trying to say he got a nice setup and should have won. I already detailed all five dirt races essentially were won wire-to-wire. If you go back and look at every dirt race he made up more ground than any horse in the stretch. Handicappers will tell you that means something.
Also I'm not sure if you watch a lot of Belmont but ground saving closing, inside trips are not what you want. Closers almost always win coming down the outside because the sweeping turns maximize momentum and minimize ground loss.. I actually thought he got a less than ideal trip and I'm sure Javier would agree he'd of preferred to get him outside but he drew the rail. He really didn't lay him down until the last furlong and a half and obviously he takes a while to get he really didn't seem to get his feet under him until the eighth pole. Hence the massive gallop out.
I think one of things missed was he was 7 lengths back at the half off 45 and 4. It's significantly closer than he typically was with Romans. I'm curious if Pletcher can get more speed into him but things like that do have the ability to make him a different animal.
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10-08-2016, 12:45 AM
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#319
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 11,474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperPickle
I'm far from infatuated with this horse. I think he's a G2-G3 animal on his best day. But give Pletcher has literally won dozens of stakes with horses like this switched to him so it wouldn't shock me if he improved him.
I think you're trying to say he got a nice setup and should have won. I already detailed all five dirt races essentially were won wire-to-wire. If you go back and look at every dirt race he made up more ground than any horse in the stretch. Handicappers will tell you that means something.
Also I'm not sure if you watch a lot of Belmont but ground saving closing, inside trips are not what you want. Closers almost always win coming down the outside because the sweeping turns maximize momentum and minimize ground loss.. I actually thought he got a less than ideal trip and I'm sure Javier would agree he'd of preferred to get him outside but he drew the rail. He really didn't lay him down until the last furlong and a half and obviously he takes a while to get he really didn't seem to get his feet under him until the eighth pole. Hence the massive gallop out.
I think one of things missed was he was 7 lengths back at the half off 45 and 4. It's significantly closer than he typically was with Romans. I'm curious if Pletcher can get more speed into him but things like that do have the ability to make him a different animal.
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That is a lot of work to get behind a horse that was a massive underlay at 1/1 in a short field against horses he should have dominated regardless of rest, distance, or pace.
Name an older horse in training that you though was legit that would finish this race as crappy as Keen Ice.
He is a G3 horse at best. Not sure why people keep making excuses for him. Heck, he may not even be a G3 horse.
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10-08-2016, 08:55 AM
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#320
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Jersey Shore
Posts: 1,187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsetup
I don't get the infatuation with this horse by so many but he's not much and he's not winning unless they set him up real nice. As for today, you might want to add that he had a pretty nice trip otherwise. Sat inside and behind the entire race, never got in the mix until the last eighth. What horse doesn't finish well with that trip?
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I'm not real big on the horse either but he had zero chance the way the track was playing. The only nice trip all day was on or very close to the lead.
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10-08-2016, 01:19 PM
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#321
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,831
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Keen Ice was an automatic bet against, but thought he ran well enough. good prep as intended
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10-08-2016, 08:37 PM
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#322
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker
That is a lot of work to get behind a horse that was a massive underlay at 1/1 in a short field against horses he should have dominated regardless of rest, distance, or pace.
Name an older horse in training that you though was legit that would finish this race as crappy as Keen Ice.
He is a G3 horse at best. Not sure why people keep making excuses for him. Heck, he may not even be a G3 horse.
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Given we just saw Effinex get nailed by Hoppertunity a horse who could not beat G2 and G3's in SoCal its kind of hard to crap on Keen Ice.
I'm far from a fan but if you look at how bad the older horse division is outside of Crome, Frosted and Dortmund I'm not sure how you make a strong case against him.
Basically the 8th best older horse in America is probably a 62k claimed in New York.
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10-08-2016, 09:09 PM
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#323
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,053
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperPickle
Given we just saw Effinex get nailed by Hoppertunity a horse who could not beat G2 and G3's in SoCal its kind of hard to crap on Keen Ice.
I'm far from a fan but if you look at how bad the older horse division is outside of Crome, Frosted and Dortmund I'm not sure how you make a strong case against him.
Basically the 8th best older horse in America is probably a 62k claimed in New York.
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Part of me wants to believe this
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10-08-2016, 09:29 PM
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#324
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NoPoints4ME
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 9,854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no breathalyzer
Part of me wants to believe this
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Wait till the "right" trainer claims a horse and moves them up.
We'll be seeing a lot of former 25 claimers winning G1's soon. Mark my words.
I'm not "JOKING"
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10-08-2016, 09:47 PM
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#325
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,037
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You see Mike Smith in the lane with this horse? I was waiting for him to start riding at some point. Never happened. He's so inept, he resorted to sticking left just before the wire to try to herd. He failed at that as well. Embarrassing attempt at finishing.
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10-08-2016, 09:53 PM
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#326
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsetup
Champagne winner got it done inside. Should we significantly upgrade his effort?
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Weren't they on different days?
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10-08-2016, 09:54 PM
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#327
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,037
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I'm referring to where they entered. Are you claiming a bias?
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10-08-2016, 11:23 PM
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#328
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsetup
I'm referring to where they entered. Are you claiming a bias?
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Sure, on Friday it is possible.
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