KEEN ICE!!!

[Grits]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

Nice try, not biting.

Your misery is exuded via the words you type. I pity people like you.

You can ignore me all you want, tough guy. Tough at the track, screaming at jocks in the paddock causing them to hang their heads, tough in NY traffic, etc, etc. All around bad ass. A legend in your own mind.

It fits. Board clown.

I'm tired of what you're doing to Pace Advantage. What you really need to do for a change? Is for once, shut your mouth and handle some criticism like a man. There's more drama in you than two $5, 5 minute hookers fighting for a corner on a Tuesday night!

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

At the risk of having everyone leave PA, as I monopolize with ridiculous thoughts , I saw a race where the supposed monster, champion, unbeatable, can go faster if asked, AP, couldn't put 6F together after jogging an extremely comfortable first half mile on a track that was maintenanced to his advantage after race 7, that's what I saw.

Glad it's a parimutal game Tom. If I saw what everyone else saw, I'd be disappointed in myself.

If great leaders just saw what everyone else saw, innovations would not have been made, cures for diseases would not have been found, frontiers would not have been found.

I don't make it a point to be contrarian BUT....

I have watched millions of races. I know what I'm looking at.

People need to stop hating the messenger. Just because I not only think different but have the guts to say it doesn't mean I'm the problem.

We just disagree about you being right

Congrats for not buying into the hype and thinking that a horse couldn't lose regardless of fitness, competition and trip. Many thought that, and were shocked and disappointed.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

We just disagree about you being right

Congrats for not buying into the hype and thinking that a horse couldn't lose regardless of fitness, competition and trip. Many thought that, and were shocked and disappointed.

I appreciate your humor and congrats but I didn't come on here before the Travers and say he will lose, so I don't deserve the congrats.

To be honest, I got sick of people refusing to treat me (Specifically GRITS and others) with the respect that I give others, so I gave him his due for a nice looking Haskell but I still kept saying: Let's see when and if he has the guts to enter a field with real horses AND LET'S SEE what happens when he gets any kind of stress/any kind of challenge.

Yes, it felt DAMN good when Keen Ice was visibly getting him at the 1/8 pole. Yes, I did scream loudly AP is done at the half mile pole.
Yes, I did scream loudly "This feels GREAT at the 1/16 pole".

Yes, I acted like a child in the seconds after the race. It's a game!!!!!!!

In my opinion, for all the people who told me 'I'm crazy, I'm nuts, I'm seeing things, etc" when I critiqued AP, I deserved to say I TOLD YOU SO.

Should I have pulled out my golf clap as he lost???

[Hard2Like]

Originally Posted by Grits

You can ignore me all you want, tough guy. Tough at the track, screaming at jocks in the paddock causing them to hang their heads, tough in NY traffic, etc, etc. All around bad ass. A legend in your own mind.

It fits. Board clown.

I'm tired of what you're doing to Pace Advantage. What you really need to do for a change? Is for once, shut your mouth and handle some criticism like a man. There's more drama in you than two $5, 5 minute hookers fighting for a corner on a Tuesday night!

Hookers leave
Board clowns don't

[Alwaysonpoint36]

Originally Posted by Hard2Like

Hookers leave
Board clowns don't

oh damn thats cold

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

No seriously, has anyone heard from him???

I changed phones and lost his number.

Our mutual friend is in Greece, so I can't ask him.

I tried calling him twice BEFORE the Travers...and he never answered, nor did he call me back.

[whodoyoulike]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

....

Are people going to seriously sit here and say he was gutsy? ...

I thought when he came back at Frosted in the stretch to retake the lead was a gutsy move. Then noticed he hung when KI started his move, I had expected him to have his extra reserve power which he'd shown in recent prior races but he just couldn't.

He didn't give up. It happens!!

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by anotherCAfan

how many times does this poor, tired horse have to ship cross-country?

WHAT? What is wrong with some people? Poor tired horse? Give me a break...

That's the problem with racing right there. Attitudes like that. Incorrect attitudes I might add.

It's why top class racing has been SO WATERED DOWN since the early to mid 1990s.

This coddling and over-protection of horses has devastated a once great sporting event.

It continues to AMAZE me that people continue to harbor the notion that TWENTY SEVEN DAYS isn't enough time to recuperate from running a race that lasts less than TWO FREAKIN MINUTES.

On top of that, American Pharoah GAINED ABOUT 20 POUNDS since the Travers.

There was no indication of a "poor, tired horse" coming into this race. Pure nonsense that is nothing but highly irritating to read.

[cj]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

WHAT? What is wrong with some people? Poor tired horse? Give me a break...

That's the problem with racing right there. Attitudes like that. Incorrect attitudes I might add.

It's why top class racing has been SO WATERED DOWN since the early to mid 1990s.

This coddling and over-protection of horses has devastated a once great sporting event.

It continues to AMAZE me that people continue to harbor the notion that TWENTY SEVEN DAYS isn't enough time to recuperate from running a race that lasts less than TWO FREAKIN MINUTES.

On top of that, American Pharoah GAINED ABOUT 20 POUNDS since the Travers.

There was no indication of a "poor, tired horse" coming into this race. Pure nonsense that is nothing but highly irritating to read.

Well said. What is so tough about a plane flight? How is it different than standing around in a stall all day? It is one thing if the horse doesn't do well on the flight, but that wasn't the case with this horse.

Another indicator...Keen Ice will train up to the BC. Probably the same for American Pharoah if he runs in the Classic. Two months between races for fit, sound horses? It makes no sense.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Grits

This well may have made quite a difference. Pharaoh has racked up more frequent flyer miles than any horse in North America. His not being here to train, and too, his jockey in to ride only him in the Travers, no other races today? I think both of these moves were detrimental. Though taking nothing away from Pharoah who ran the whole way today in defeat.

Keen Ice has been, here, in Saratoga. Dale Romans knew his horse was improving, working well over this track. Subsequently, he put the best jockey in the country on his back. Javier was a smart move.

It was a fine horse race, an exciting one.

My memory is poor. Was his prepping for the Belmont Stakes much different? Was Victor's?

[linrom1]

The race was a disgrace for racing. Frosted was just used up to 'cook' American Pharoah. Zayat Racing should pull all its horses from NYRA tracks.

If the horse was owned by Marylou Whitney or another racing blueblood, this would have never happened.

What is Frosted doing? If the intention was to win the race, he could easily make a move on Pharoah during the stretch-run, but the jock is waiting for Keen Ice to a make move and once he sees him he presses Pharoah.

This race is just as disgraceful as the stunt they puled on Smarty Jones.

[Rex Phinney]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

WHAT? What is wrong with some people? Poor tired horse? Give me a break...

That's the problem with racing right there. Attitudes like that. Incorrect attitudes I might add.

It's why top class racing has been SO WATERED DOWN since the early to mid 1990s.

This coddling and over-protection of horses has devastated a once great sporting event.

It continues to AMAZE me that people continue to harbor the notion that TWENTY SEVEN DAYS isn't enough time to recuperate from running a race that lasts less than TWO FREAKIN MINUTES.

On top of that, American Pharoah GAINED ABOUT 20 POUNDS since the Travers.

There was no indication of a "poor, tired horse" coming into this race. Pure nonsense that is nothing but highly irritating to read.

I've been meaning to add on this that Bayern carried basically the same travel load last year, only he wasn't done yet. He made the trip once more about a month later to run at PARX then back to CA for the BCC.

I think us west coast guys keep up a little bit more on how many times a horse goes cross country (flies), A top level horse out here has todo it a lot more, just part of the gig. Those saying Baffert should have left the horse in NY to train are off base IMO. AP travel has been pretty heavy but not unheard of, and Baffert clearly is the best in the country at shipping cross country.

[cj]

Originally Posted by linrom1

The race was a disgrace for racing. Frosted was just used up to 'cook' American Pharoah. Zayat Racing should pull all its horses from NYRA tracks.

If the horse was owned by Marylou Whitney or another racing blueblood, this would have never happened.

What is Frosted doing? If the intention was to win the race, he could easily make a move on Pharoah during the stretch-run, but the jock is waiting for Keen Ice to a make move and once he sees him he presses Pharoah.

This race is just as disgraceful as the stunt they puled on Smarty Jones.

The rider was trying to win on Frosted. It isn't like they went 45. I'll never get this kind of post. If you don't want the other horses to try and win, watch a parade.

[Rex Phinney]

Originally Posted by linrom1

The race was a disgrace for racing. Frosted was just used up to 'cook' American Pharoah. Zayat Racing should pull all its horses from NYRA tracks.

If the horse was owned by Marylou Whitney or another racing blueblood, this would have never happened.

What is Frosted doing? If the intention was to win the race, he could easily make a move on Pharoah during the stretch-run, but the jock is waiting for Keen Ice to a make move and once he sees him he presses Pharoah.

This race is just as disgraceful as the stunt they puled on Smarty Jones.

ZOMG! Frosted shadowed the Pharaoh thru a 48+ half and headed him on the turn. How dare he!!!

If you don't want the lead don't take it, if you're going to run a 1/5 out there you better have thicker skin than that.

Frosted was ensuring the race wouldn't be a cakewalk, making sure AP didn't get the lead with pattycake, candyass speed. Basically Frosted was making sure we got a horse race yesterday and not a parade.

The two horses involved in the "cooking" you describe finished 2nd and 3rd, quit crying.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

At the risk of having everyone leave PA, as I monopolize with ridiculous thoughts , I saw a race where the supposed monster, champion, unbeatable, can go faster if asked, AP, couldn't put 6F together after jogging an extremely comfortable first half mile on a track that was maintenanced to his advantage after race 7, that's what I saw.

Glad it's a parimutal game Tom. If I saw what everyone else saw, I'd be disappointed in myself.

If great leaders just saw what everyone else saw, innovations would not have been made, cures for diseases would not have been found, frontiers would not have been found.

I don't make it a point to be contrarian BUT....

I have watched millions of races. I know what I'm looking at.

People need to stop hating the messenger. Just because I not only think different but have the guts to say it doesn't mean I'm the problem.

In my opinion, you're being AS RIDICULOUS as those you chide, but in the opposite direction.

And where are all these people who have been saying AP is the BEST EVER? I can think of maybe ONE person on here who held anywhere near that opinion, but I don't think they were even at that point YET. You're exaggerating beyond the realm of believability, and I have to think you're doing this simply to bust balls.