Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board

Go Back   Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board > Thoroughbred Horse Racing Discussion > General Racing Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old 05-01-2020, 08:19 PM   #16
dilanesp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom View Post
NOW, the important questions....

What about the Belmont?

Will Met Mile go back to Memorial Day Card....that would seem to be a card that will a perfect opportunity for BIG day of BIG races.

Will there be enough horses ready to run to fill BIG races?

Gee, talking racing again....whodathinkit?
I would imagine New York Racing, especially at a time when some other big tracks are still closed, is going to be very high quality.
dilanesp is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-01-2020, 08:20 PM   #17
dilanesp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Secondbest View Post
Except for a few days a year nobody goes to Belmont anyway.
So they might as well run.
It's sad, really. It's one of most beautiful tracks in the world.
dilanesp is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-02-2020, 11:17 AM   #18
Secondbest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,755
Quote:
Originally Posted by classhandicapper View Post
I hear you. The place is massively underutilized.

I'm one of the guys that still goes on beautiful sunny days.

You can find me near the paddock looking at the horses for the upcoming race or sitting on a bench near the tote board in that area contemplating a bet. For me, a sunny day at Belmont in the back yard is like a brief glimpse of heaven. At 61 and retired last year, I'm not happy about not being able to enjoy this time the way I hoped.
I know how you feel. When I retired 13 years ago , I'm 72, that was part of my plan. But after a few years no more sun for me. Sitting under those big trees in the shade I could never handicap or bet. I would just nod off. So into into the grandstand. Cheer up as soon as this goes away you'll be back by the paddock. Maybe I'll see you there. I'll be one of the old guys with a big hat.
Secondbest is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-02-2020, 06:18 PM   #19
Tom
The Voice of Reason!
 
Tom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,460
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos View Post
Dilanesp's knowledge knows no bounds. It spreads coast to coast.
The curve that cannot be flattened!
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
Tom is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-02-2020, 09:20 PM   #20
SaratogaSteve
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom View Post
The curve that cannot be flattened!
SaratogaSteve is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-02-2020, 10:17 PM   #21
Afleet
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Missouri
Posts: 2,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by classhandicapper View Post
I hear you. The place is massively underutilized.

I'm one of the guys that still goes on beautiful sunny days.

You can find me near the paddock looking at the horses for the upcoming race or sitting on a bench near the tote board in that area contemplating a bet. For me, a sunny day at Belmont in the back yard is like a brief glimpse of heaven. At 61 and retired last year, I'm not happy about not being able to enjoy this time the way I hoped.
that sounds like a good time to me!
Afleet is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-03-2020, 01:48 PM   #22
drib
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 175
Running a fan-less Saratoga meet seems very questionable. The only benefit I can see is the possible increase in handle, though I maintain the notion that the exact same race in August at Belmont would draw significantly less $ is shaky. On the negative side, racing at Saratoga would entail moving three to five thousand people (families included) from an area with high virus exposure. Consider that the whole disastrous Italian outbreak has been traced to a small number of travelers from China. Here is another point from a long time NY trainer:


Pinned Tweet
Gary Contessa
@GaryContessa
Ok, right now many trainers are on life support financially. The expenses of moving to Saratoga for two months are staggering. Saratoga is all about the people. If the decision is to race without people, why not stay home and run a Saratoga at Belmont meet? Let everyone heal.
drib is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-03-2020, 02:39 PM   #23
classhandicapper
Registered User
 
classhandicapper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 20,528
Quote:
Originally Posted by drib View Post
Pinned Tweet
Gary Contessa
@GaryContessa
Ok, right now many trainers are on life support financially. The expenses of moving to Saratoga for two months are staggering. Saratoga is all about the people. If the decision is to race without people, why not stay home and run a Saratoga at Belmont meet? Let everyone heal.
I've been saying this since the start of the discussion. No one has been talking about the incremental expense of shipping and living up there.

Even if there is some benefit to the "Saratoga" brand, (which I personally doubt is significant when it comes to off track wagering) you still have to question whether it's enough to make up for the extra expense and incremental risk. I'm glad someone is actually talking about it. I'm sure he knows the amounts. I was just generalizing.
__________________
"Unlearning is the highest form of learning"

Last edited by classhandicapper; 05-03-2020 at 02:40 PM.
classhandicapper is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-03-2020, 03:05 PM   #24
GMB@BP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
Quote:
Originally Posted by classhandicapper View Post
I've been saying this since the start of the discussion. No one has been talking about the incremental expense of shipping and living up there.

Even if there is some benefit to the "Saratoga" brand, (which I personally doubt is significant when it comes to off track wagering) you still have to question whether it's enough to make up for the extra expense and incremental risk. I'm glad someone is actually talking about it. I'm sure he knows the amounts. I was just generalizing.
may also not be a good idea to bring together the sheer amount of shippers from around the country as different parts of the country are on different paths of peak Covid spread.
GMB@BP is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-03-2020, 03:49 PM   #25
AndyC
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB@BP View Post
may also not be a good idea to bring together the sheer amount of shippers from around the country as different parts of the country are on different paths of peak Covid spread.
By the time Saratoga is due to start will there be anybody left to infect? It would seem that testing of the shippers would be a logical move, both human and horses.
__________________
Best writing advice ever received: Never use a long word when a diminutive one will suffice.
AndyC is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-03-2020, 04:19 PM   #26
RunForTheRoses
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,149
Not sure if this was posted elsewhere but Monmouth opens July 4th.
RunForTheRoses is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-03-2020, 04:23 PM   #27
Clocker
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
Quote:
Originally Posted by classhandicapper View Post
Even if there is some benefit to the "Saratoga" brand, (which I personally doubt is significant when it comes to off track wagering)

Agree. With 3-5 tracks racing on any given day, any NY track is going to be the top brand on the market. Especially with the west coast shut down.

P.S. The big brand for tomorrow, Monday, is Will Rogers.
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
Clocker is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-03-2020, 05:01 PM   #28
NTamm1215
Registered User
 
NTamm1215's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 752
Why are we even discussing whether there would be a difference in handle between Saratoga and Saratoga at Belmont? This is very basic and VERY simple. Saratoga is the strongest brand in the sport. It commands the most attention from every stakeholder. You can’t run it elsewhere and expect the same results. Look at the off-track handle figs. I took a record Belmont Saturday and compared it with a new Saratoga Saturday and the difference was almost 10%.

And the “Will Rogers and Fonner handle proves people will bet on anything” argument is not applicable. There are two tracks running on those days and everyone is locked at home.
NTamm1215 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-03-2020, 06:19 PM   #29
Redbullsnation
THEY SEND IN THE MAN
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 263
We hope. God knows what will they do with some of the stake races that were unable to run on Aquaduct (maybe move the Wood Memorial to Belmont for 1 year only?). But yeah. Belmont is coming back soon. Bills need to be paid baby...


Johnny I calling the Belmont is gonna be a weird thought tho
__________________
@skytalkertv
Redbullsnation is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-03-2020, 06:28 PM   #30
classhandicapper
Registered User
 
classhandicapper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 20,528
Quote:
Originally Posted by NTamm1215 View Post
Why are we even discussing whether there would be a difference in handle between Saratoga and Saratoga at Belmont? This is very basic and VERY simple. Saratoga is the strongest brand in the sport. It commands the most attention from every stakeholder. You can’t run it elsewhere and expect the same results. Look at the off-track handle figs. I took a record Belmont Saturday and compared it with a new Saratoga Saturday and the difference was almost 10%.
In terms of revenue, part of the formula is how much you handle on/off track, part of the formula is the quality of the races, and part of it is number of starters.

All those things must be considered, but we are getting bits and pieces of each from people trying to justify the move and not a total analysis that includes COSTS (which has been my point) and RISKS.

Maybe a valid analysis exists at NYRA, but it wasn't in that article that was posted and I surely don't know it.

Saratoga has many of the premier races of the sport each year, the typical card is of much higher quality than Belmont, and there are more starters per race. That's what created the brand over and above the beauty of the track and town (which won't be in play if there are no fans).

Do you think the Travers, Alabama, Whitney, Woodward, and other Grade 1 race cards of that caliber are going to handle a lot less off track if they are at Belmont?

They might handle less, but imo the difference would be a lot less off track than you are implying with quality cards like that compared to what's typically run at Belmont (all else being equal).

So the question is whether all the incremental expenses and possible incremental risk is worth it to move trainers, families, equipment, and other backstretch workers to Saratoga just so they can do none of the things that make Saratoga special when they can run the same races at Belmont from the safety of their own homes and save money.

I don't know all the costs, but Gary Contessa does. He appears to want to stay home. I can't blame him. That's why I brought up the cost side. No one else was. If things turn around enough in the next month or so that having some fans is a consideration, then it's an entirely different story. As is, IMO it's close call.
__________________
"Unlearning is the highest form of learning"

Last edited by classhandicapper; 05-03-2020 at 06:42 PM.
classhandicapper is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Advertisement
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999 - 2023 -- PaceAdvantage.Com -- All Rights Reserved
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program
designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.