NY Residents Can Kiss Their Rebates Goodbye Comes The New Year

[acorn54]

are you trying to shrug off a 5% take out of a horseplayers bottom line?
if you have a significant profit with this new law my hat is off to you

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by acorn54

are you trying to shrug off a 5% take out of a horseplayers bottom line?
if you have a significant profit with this new law my hat is off to you

Who is shrugging off the new law? TLG simply made the point that other states have similar "fees."

[Vigorish]

Originally Posted by acorn54

thanks for the post
it also begs the question is the gambling on horseraces a viable means to invest for new yorkers.
for me personally with this new law the idea of making any significant money in horse betting has gone the way of the dodo bird,as i am a resident of new york and my company has no operations outside of new york to a bettor friendly state.
i guess it's time to devote less time to gambling on horses and more time on my other pastimes such as astronomy, and stamp collecting of rarities.
it has been a precipitous decline in a very short time anyway. first, the rapidly dwindling opportunites due to short fields in horse races, the increased efficientcy of the parimutuel market, and the exodus of casual bettors from the betting pools, now the elimination of my rebates come january.
keep up the good work nyra, cuomo and company.

Only a delusional optimist would think that the other states will not follow suit with new source market fees and access restrictions. The player is already being squeezed with higher signal fees and increased takeout rates. The opportunity cost of staying engaged as a serious horseplayer keeps on increasing, make the game less and less palatable.

Many serious horseplayers are a lot like horsemen, breeders, and track owners. Our investment in the game is contingent on prevailing and projected business conditions. Although the industry would like to cultivate a generation of entertainment-focused fans willing to pay $80 admissions and wear Todd Pletcher or Bob Baffert jersey's, this type of thinking is pure fantasy. A cursory analysis of nearly every major enthusiast site reveals that nearly all players are after one elusive goal: becoming a long-term winning horseplayer. The 'Zenyatta Ladies' are fickle fans who rally around one or two horses, pay their $10 admittance fees and buy a few drinks, only to fade into oblivion.



Anyway, I am anticipating that within a year or two we will see the rest of the states follow suit, taking their cue from major states like Texas, Illinois, Pennsylvania, New York, and others. They will never succeed in bringing me back to the track, which I left in 1998. I constitute 'a recovered fan' in the sense that I would never have returned to the game if not for the easy access, technological innovation, and rewards (i.e. past performances, rebates, promotions) offered by ADW's. If I am representative of the younger fan (and I think I am in many ways), this game is doomed.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by acorn54

are you trying to shrug off a 5% take out of a horseplayers bottom line?
if you have a significant profit with this new law my hat is off to you

Are you talking to me? If so, please quote me.

This law doesn't help NYRA. Yes, most of the monies bet will be bet on NYRA races, but a much lesser percentage of the source market fee is given to NYRA. Given that one thing we can agree upon is that this will hurt handle, if one takes the time to read the law, they will realize it won't likely be a net gain for NYRA.

I suggest people here read the entire law, and then learn something about source market fees, and the number of states that already have them in place, before making a lot of claims or pointing a lot of fingers.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by the little guy

Are you talking to me? If so, please quote me.

This law doesn't help NYRA. Yes, most of the monies bet will be bet on NYRA races, but a much lesser percentage of the source market fee is given to NYRA. Given that one thing we can agree upon is that this will hurt handle, if one takes the time to read the law, they will realize it won't likely be a net gain for NYRA.

I suggest people here read the entire law, and then learn something about source market fees, and the number of states that already have them in place, before making a lot of claims or pointing a lot of fingers.

I'm certainly not pointing fingers. I oppose these actions in all states. But I will read the full NY law in order to learn what happens to the bulk of the new source mkt fee.

[acorn54]

Originally Posted by the little guy

Are you talking to me? If so, please quote me.

This law doesn't help NYRA. Yes, most of the monies bet will be bet on NYRA races, but a much lesser percentage of the source market fee is given to NYRA. Given that one thing we can agree upon is that this will hurt handle, if one takes the time to read the law, they will realize it won't likely be a net gain for NYRA.

I suggest people here read the entire law, and then learn something about source market fees, and the number of states that already have them in place, before making a lot of claims or pointing a lot of fingers.

sorry for being rude, i am just hot under the collar at the moment right now.

[wiffleball whizz]

Originally Posted by the little guy

Are you talking to me? If so, please quote me.

This law doesn't help NYRA. Yes, most of the monies bet will be bet on NYRA races, but a much lesser percentage of the source market fee is given to NYRA. Given that one thing we can agree upon is that this will hurt handle, if one takes the time to read the law, they will realize it won't likely be a net gain for NYRA.

I suggest people here read the entire law, and then learn something about source market fees, and the number of states that already have them in place, before making a lot of claims or pointing a lot of fingers.

Agree 100 percent with TLG........

[Saratoga_Mike]

From the bill:

"THE COMMISSION SHALL ALLOCATE CREDITS TO RACING ASSOCIATIONS AND
26 CORPORATIONS, FRANCHISED CORPORATIONS, AND OFF-TRACK BETTING CORPO-
27 RATIONS IN THE FOLLOWING AMOUNTS:

28 A. FORTY PERCENT OF THE AMOUNT RECEIVED FROM THE MARKET ORIGIN FEE
29 PAID PURSUANT TO SUBDIVISION SIX OF SECTION ONE THOUSAND TWELVE-A OF
30 THIS CHAPTER TO REGIONAL OFF-TRACK BETTING CORPORATIONS. ALLOCATIONS TO
31 INDIVIDUAL REGIONAL OFF-TRACK BETTING CORPORATIONS SHALL BE MADE BASED
32 ON A RATIO WHERE THE NUMERATOR IS THE REGIONAL CORPORATION'S TOTAL
33 IN-STATE HANDLE FOR THE PREVIOUS CALENDAR YEAR AS CALCULATED BY THE
34 COMMISSION AND THE DENOMINATOR IS THE TOTAL IN-STATE HANDLE OF ALL THE
35 REGIONAL OFF-TRACK BETTING CORPORATIONS FOR THE PREVIOUS CALENDAR YEAR
36 AS CALCULATED BY THE COMMISSION;


37 B. FIFTY PERCENT OF THE AMOUNT RECEIVED FROM THE MARKET ORIGIN FEE
38 PAID PURSUANT TO SUBDIVISION SIX OF SECTION ONE THOUSAND TWELVE-A OF
39 THIS CHAPTER TO THE RACING ASSOCIATIONS AND CORPORATIONS AND FRANCHISED
40 CORPORATIONS. ALLOCATIONS TO INDIVIDUAL RACING ASSOCIATIONS AND CORPO-
41 RATIONS AND FRANCHISED CORPORATIONS SHALL BE MADE AS FOLLOWS:
42 (I) SIXTY PERCENT TO THOROUGHBRED RACING ASSOCIATIONS AND FRANCHISED
43 CORPORATIONS. FIVE-SIXTHS SHALL BE ALLOCATED TO A FRANCHISED CORPO-
44 RATION AND ONE-SIXTH SHALL BE ALLOCATED TO A THOROUGHBRED RACING ASSOCI-
45 ATION.
46 (II) FORTY PERCENT TO HARNESS RACING ASSOCIATIONS AND CORPORATIONS.
47 ALLOCATIONS TO INDIVIDUAL HARNESS RACING ASSOCIATIONS AND CORPORATIONS
48 SHALL BE MADE BASED ON A RATIO WHERE THE NUMERATOR IS THE ASSOCIATION'S
49 OR CORPORATION'S TOTAL IN-STATE HANDLE ON LIVE RACING FOR THE PREVIOUS
50 CALENDAR YEAR AS CALCULATED BY THE COMMISSION AND THE DENOMINATOR IS THE
51 TOTAL IN-STATE ON LIVE HANDLE FOR ALL HARNESS RACING ASSOCIATIONS AND
52 CORPORATIONS FOR THE PREVIOUS CALENDAR YEAR AS CALCULATED BY THE COMMIS-
53 SION."

The bill was sponsored by Senator Bonacic (Monticello Raceway is in his district), and his co-sponsors were Senators Gallivan and Grisanti (Western Regional OTB and/or Batavia/Buffalo Raceways are in their districts).

The bill appears to favor OTBs and harness tracks. Why any OTB would receive a dime of this money is beyond me.

[WJ47]

I live in New York and currently bet with Twinspires. How is NYRA rewards? Does it have a nice interface? I'm thinking I should open an account there. I don't want to get cut off.

[the little guy]

Some States that already have source market fees....California, Florida, Illinois, Virginia, Pennsylvania and New Jersey. There are also others. Two of those States, Virginia and Pennsylvania, have a 10% source market fee.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by WJ47

I live in New York and currently bet with Twinspires. How is NYRA rewards? Does it have a nice interface? I'm thinking I should open an account there. I don't want to get cut off.

You can check out the current interface at nyrarewards.com. However, given that NYRA and GBE have just gone ahead to substantially improve our betting platform going forward, things will change in a very positive way in the near future.

[wiffleball whizz]

Just wondering how you guys are gonna be in the black betting ponies now??

Now u guys can try to bet to make money and not try and break even and scoop the rebates


I have zero sympathy for anybody that this is costing money too

Now we will see who the real gamblers and handicappers are......


Posts that will be becoming less and less frequent:

" I just bet and look to push and get rebates"

" my ADW gives me back 12.7 percent on tris"

"Hey whizz why don't u try out this ADW"

" hey whizz you can't beat this game without rebates"


I got news for you guys......the whizz is up over the 3.5 years betting horses without rebates.....real gamblers can win without the assist


Try being like me and cjs dad and bet live at the track without rebates and let us know how u do!!!!!!

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by the little guy

Some States that already have source market fees....California, Florida, Illinois, Virginia, Pennsylvania and New Jersey. There are also others. Two of those States, Virginia and Pennsylvania, have a 10% source market fee.

I know Churchill sued TX, but it was a different set of circumstances. I need to logon to PACER and see if there are pending suits in the states you enumerated.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by wiffleball whizz

I got news for you guys......the whizz is up over the 3.5 years betting horses without rebates.....real gamblers can win without the assist


Try being like me and cjs dad and bet live at the track without rebates and let us know how u do!!!!!!

You're the first self-described "degenerate" in the history of time who is ahead of the game - congrats.

[wiffleball whizz]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

You're the first self-described "degenerate" in the history of time who is ahead of the game - congrats.

Noooooooooooooooooo.............

Up since 2010 about 13,700


From 1997-2009 prob stuck 50,000 to 80,000........nice rite