Orino DQ, Race 5, Aug 7th Saratoga.

[Phantombridgejumpe]

I had my Jockey fall off with 100 yards to go, but my horse still won, no sweat, correct?

Next race my horse burst through the starting gait, that was an awesome head start to get!

I cashed the pick 3 when my Jock came back carrying 112 when he was supposed to carry 122. No sweat for me!!



I am guessing at the Derby result. And yes I do think it should take a little more for a DQ in a big race. Within reason.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by Phantombridgejumpe

I had my Jockey fall off with 100 yards to go, but my horse still won, no sweat, correct?

Next race my horse burst through the starting gait, that was an awesome head start to get!

I cashed the pick 3 when my Jock came back carrying 112 when he was supposed to carry 122. No sweat for me!!



I am guessing at the Derby result. And yes I do think it should take a little more for a DQ in a big race. Within reason.

At SRU's crib, you need to win the race...if your jock falls off, you lose. Good day sir.

BUT, on the bright side, if you WIN, you get....drum roll Alex.....PAID! *ta dahhh*

You say "within reason" but this is the entire gist of the discussion. What"s a "big race"? Who's to say that Orino's win wasnt MY big race as a bettor? Any bettor could be alive for hundreds of thousands or millions in a pick something into the last race which is a 5k claimer..don't tell that bettor its not a " big race".

The "big race" concept just goes to show everyone that its all about the horse owners, trainers and jocks...its THEIR "big race" so its counted as a big race. My "big race"? Not so much.

[Phantombridgejumpe]

My horse finished first! Outrage.

It was less of a 'big race' call than a 20 horses in a race call. I allow a little common sense to be applied, you don't (and I know why because you think he common people are crooked).

Which policy do you like for police monitoring a highway...

Speed limit is 60 on this road

A) Everyone going 61 or higher gets a ticket
B) Nobody gets a ticket, let people police their own driving
C) The cop tickets everyone going at a dangerous speed, generally
above 70

I don't think either of us like A. I'm not willing to try B, you are frustrated with
the vagueness of C.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by Phantombridgejumpe

My horse finished first! Outrage.

It was less of a 'big race' call than a 20 horses in a race call. I allow a little common sense to be applied, you don't (and I know why because you think he common people are crooked).

Which policy do you like for police monitoring a highway...

Speed limit is 60 on this road

A) Everyone going 61 or higher gets a ticket
B) Nobody gets a ticket, let people police their own driving
C) The cop tickets everyone going at a dangerous speed, generally
above 70

I don't think either of us like A. I'm not willing to try B, you are frustrated with
the vagueness of C.

I think your analogy deals with public safety where others are involved, so, its a different slope altogether. Nobody wants to be ticketed doing 61 and in fact, if you know the law, and i was reading up on this recently at a Barnes and Noble, that the speed limits are just "suggested" speed limits...in other words, if the conditions permit, you can actually go over the posted speed limit and its not breaking the law. If its sunny and dry conditions and there's only a small amount of traffic on the road, you don't have to adhere to 60 if it says 60. Now, this varies from state to state obviously, but if you got a ticket going 61 on a dry, sunny day when the roads were basically empty, you would be able to get that ticket tossed out in court.

At any rate, my problem with the way DQs are handled is the inconsistency and the nit picking. Sometimes, judges will be disqualifying horses for political reasons and personal conflict......i'm sure this doesnt happen all that often, but in the history of DQs in america, i'd be willing to bet that a steward not liking a trainer, owner, jock or someone else contributed to a borderline DQ going one way and not the other. Its kind of as a bettor, i sort of want to be paid unless the cirumstances are outrageous.

If there's a situation where a horse is buried on the rail and swings out, physically crashes into a horse in reckless abandon trying to get a lane, 3 horses have to check hard than yeah, i wont have a problem with that horse coming down. However, i do have a problem with a DQ like the Orino DQ, that wasnt a disqualification was a "Must" takedown. It was one that could have been left alone on many different grounds. That is what i dont like, them playing god with OPM.

Leave them results alone unless you truly have to make a DQ. Some were saying this Orino situation was 50/50. Not good enough, it can't even be close to 50/50 because in my book, the winner gets the benefit of the doubt.

And, this Orino race, he didnt cost the inside horse a board spot, that horse held 2nd and wasnt ever winning and yet, they altered a result that absolutely didnt have to be altered.

[notoutofpounds]

Did anybody notice the two people inside the inner rail just to the right of the totalizator board ? You can see them on the head-on replay at about the 5:00 mark. They move away abruptly as the horses have entered the stretch. As they bolt from the rail they knock down a horizontal piece of the rail. The knocked down rail piece appears at about 1:48 on the replay.

Bogus DQ, clearly trying to keep the chalk happy.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by notoutofpounds

Did anybody notice the two people inside the inner rail just to the right of the totalizator board ? You can see them on the head-on replay at about the 5:00 mark. They move away abruptly as the horses have entered the stretch. As they bolt from the rail they knock down a horizontal piece of the rail. The knocked down rail piece appears at about 1:48 on the replay.

Bogus DQ, clearly trying to keep the chalk happy.

Excellent observation Pounder, well done.

I do believe that because the horse who was blocked was 3-5, there is some expectation that he's by far the best horse in the race and when the 'best horse' gets blocked, the logical conclusion was that the block cost him the win. After all, he was 3-5 for a reason (that's the logic).

IF that horse was 30-1 the reverse might happen and they might think that because the horse was 30-1, he wasnt going to be good enough to win anyway.

[notoutofpounds]

The stewards delivered a poor decision very slowly. Boo !

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by notoutofpounds

The stewards delivered a poor decision very slowly. Boo !

The standard they set there was incredibly high, its a standard that they rarely adhere to. That DQ essentially said that they're forcing you to run an exact straight line. If you waver one inch to either side, it could cost you. In other words, there's no expectation that a horse who is in the position of the runner up will get clear or has to get clear. If he gets caught behind horses, that's just bad racing luck and bad racing luck happens sometimes when you're fishing for a lane (with the temp rails out) and it doesnt develop.

Also, the jock on the runner up made a mistake to think he was actually going to get thru and the judges rewarded him for trying.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Originally Posted by Phantombridgejumpe

I had my Jockey fall off with 100 yards to go, but my horse still won, no sweat, correct?

Next race my horse burst through the starting gait, that was an awesome head start to get!

I cashed the pick 3 when my Jock came back carrying 112 when he was supposed to carry 122. No sweat for me!!



I am guessing at the Derby result. And yes I do think it should take a little more for a DQ in a big race. Within reason.

Phantom, now you're just getting silly with your "Mad Max" analogies and comparisons to highway safety. I'm not promoting that we go all "Ben Hur" chariot racing here.

The jock still has to stay aboard, the jock still has to weigh out (no quick officials), and the stewards still have latitude for late scratches for horses breaking through the starting gate, OR if a horse does not get a fair start - it can be ruled on non-starter. Ya know, like you say, a little common sense.

By your own admission you're leaving the stewards the latitude to alter the results on a whim, and that's our beef. I believe the vast majority of them are on the up-and-up, though like the common people, are human - and we know what that means.

Back in the early 1990s when I was able to start playing the full-card simulcasts form Southern California, I thought the stewards there were awesome. They let the jocks ride, rarely took down a horse, and I agreed with their decisions about 90% of time. Then I got DQ'ed one race at Hollywood in 1998 for a ticky tack call in which no way affected the outcome. I was in such shock, and I had to leave for the day (it only cost me about $200, but was SHOCKING). That crooked DQ at Sportsman's came flooding back, and since then I've always been leery of the motives of the stewards unless the foul is flagrant - which seems to be about 1/10th of the time.

Ya know, the "no brainer" DQs....

[Stillriledup]

Adirondack Dancer clobbered the 3rd place finisher the entire stretch, no inquiry no DQ no nothing, Race 11 on Aug 10th.

[Phantombridgejumpe]

guys find it an give your opinion?

You would almost need the head to answer the question.

I don't use replays like that, so I don't even know if it is possible.

It is from Fingers Lakes. I'll look for the details if you think
you might be able to find a replay. It had a long inquiry and
the OTB was VERY split on the decision.

[Phantombridgejumpe]

It is Race 4 on August 2nd at Finger Lakes.

Seemed like the Old Guard thought it shouldn't be a DQ and the newer
players thought it certainly would.

Just an interesting case where the fans (majority of who
didn't even bet the race) could not agree.

[notoutofpounds]

should have come down. The contact initiated by the easily costs the at least the slim margin he lost by.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by notoutofpounds

should have come down. The contact initiated by the easily costs the at least the slim margin he lost by.

I like the idea that certain jurisdictions will factor in margin of win/loss in their decisions. It doesnt appear NY has these rules and when you don't have these rules in place, it makes it just that much harder to know when to do the right thing.

[Millpond68]

9 at Saratoga looks like a repeat of the Orino DQ