Vaders loses appeal in PA Court - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

Nacumi · 02-04-2009, 11:17 AM

http://news.bloodhorse.com/article/49072.htm

But the good news is, she's eligible to apply for a license elsewhere, and back in PA in a couple years.

sandpit · 02-04-2009, 11:23 AM

From the article:

Jayne Vaders, the leading trainer at Philadelphia Park Casino & Racetrack in 2007, lost her appeal Jan. 9 in Commonwealth Court of Pennsylvania for an indefinite ban from training due to multiple drug positives.

How can the sport have any credibility when this is the norm? Track mgmt, trainers, breeders, auction houses...none of them give a damn about the fans or the horses...

The Bit · 02-04-2009, 12:00 PM

I just put a post up on my blog about this and couldn't agree with you guys more. I called it a small victory because the problem is obviously much large than just Vaders. She actually responded ( atleast claim to be her ) to a post I made about her last spring/winter.

My feeling is, and I've attended Delaware Racing Commission Meetings, is that they will do whatever it takes to keep people like her out. Just like they did to Mike Gill a few years ago. I really hope they do.

I cannot comment on Maryland, they are in a bad situation and keeping the sport going is probably the biggest concern they have right now.

jotb · 02-04-2009, 12:37 PM

Vaders just in the month of Jan 09- 39 starts- 15 wins-7 place- 6 show. That's 38% win and 72% ITM. It looks like Edward Auwarter fills the spot for now.

Joe

Nacumi · 02-04-2009, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotb

Vaders just in the month of Jan 09- 39 starts- 15 wins-7 place- 6 show. That's 38% win and 72% ITM. It looks like Edward Auwarter fills the spot for now.
Joe

Wonder if she left Auwarter the keys to her special medicine cabinet?

I guess those wins, seconds and shows will help pad her savings account as she moves to a new jurisdiction.

TonyK@HSH · 02-04-2009, 06:43 PM

The person behind Vaders was John McCaslin who had his share of 'test' failures during his pretty successful training career. John is still in the barn so expect business as usual (although there may be a short term slowdown) for Ed Auwarter. John is an experienced horseman and knows his way around a horse.
As I see it (by being near the barn almost everyday) Ed is primarily a program trainer with John and the old staff conducting the day to day business. Unless owners decide to flee I believe Ed will enjoy a career year

TonyK

DrugS · 02-04-2009, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotb

Vaders just in the month of Jan 09- 39 starts- 15 wins-7 place- 6 show. That's 38% win and 72% ITM. It looks like Edward Auwarter fills the spot for now.

Not bad - considering her training career started in the Mid 90's - and she lost with her first 56 starters.

PaceAdvantage · 02-05-2009, 12:07 AM

Practice makes perfect....

I hear Kiaran is hitting 35% at the moment...according to some, anything over 18% means you're cheating...

DrugS · 02-05-2009, 01:26 AM

I wouldn't agree with that at all - and I think win percentage can be a bit of an overrated stat.

Trainers can obviously achieve a high win percentage by aggressively placing horses - and overwhelming fields with superior stock.

IMO, the ones who have an edge are the trainers who consistantly improve new stock - and who consistantly achieve spectacular success from an ROI on the betting dollar standpoint ... though the latter is something that can be dulled over time due to some bettors sending it in on virtually every horse that one of these trainers starts.

For instance ... take a look at the trainer stats of David Wells at Charles Town.

Since '04 .. he is 104-for-256 (40.6% wins) with an ROI of $3.15

Basically, pretty otherworldly numbers. if you bet just $100 on each horse of his .. you'd be ahead $16,000.

Wells is the boyfriend of the great Mid-Atlantic alchemist Steph Beattie. Looking at her stats at Charles Town...

Since '04 .. she is just 280-for-803 (34.9% wins) with an ROI of $2.02

Even though horses running under the name of Wells or Steph Beattie are coming from the same stable ... the ones running under SB's name tend to get hammered by bettors while the ones running under DW's name don't. Until the last year or two anyway ... now everyone pretty much realizes they are the same thing.

In '04 and '05 Wells was 35-for-96 (36%) with a $4.32 ROI. Since that point - he's 69-for-161 (43%) with a $2.43 ROI ... so his win percentage has risen big .. but the ROI has taken a hit because finally have learned that he and Steph are together. Where in 2005 .. the average bettor would have told you that SB is the goddess of juice .. and DW is a fat guy who pitched a perfect game for the yankees.

This One's For Phil paid 11/1 going 1st time Dutrow. What is his price in that spot if O' Connell still was listed as the trainer? I think he's a 40/1 or 50/1 shot for her.

Besides the consistant form reversals and gaudy ROI's .. I think another sign of a trainer who is taking an edge is when a horse is claimed off of them or moved away from them ... and said horses consistantly tend to fall apart. Sometimes right away ... others might hang in there for a few races before vanishing from the planet.

NY BRED · 02-05-2009, 04:52 AM

I've posted a possible solution before on this issue, and I'll try again.

If you disqualify the horse from its finishing position and demand reimbursement
from the owner(s) these issues could ultimately disappear, especially when the trainer is suspended.

I know this is a rough penalty to all parties, but it will not only create a level
playing field but will ultimately create a safer world for the Thooroughbred.

jotb · 02-05-2009, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Practice makes perfect....

I hear Kiaran is hitting 35% at the moment...according to some, anything over 18% means you're cheating...

I don't think you replied to me. Anyway, I only pointed out her stats because she lost the appeal on Jan 9th. These stats were just for the month of Jan 09. With all the problems that she was facing the horses were still crossing the finish line first at a good clip. I think Kiaran is winning at 27% this year but I could be wrong. I don't think everyone winning over 18% is automatically a cheater. However, when a trainer constantly wins over 30% of their races year in and year out, I would think it's more than just training involved. These type of trainer's have some type of edge. Owners can make a trainer's job much easier when they allow trainer's to jam their horses in spots where the horses just outclass the bunch. This helps trainer's to win many more races.

Some trainer's will not win many races just because of their owners. Many owners in the game are in denial when it comes to their stock. They think their horses are much better than they are. Their horse runs well for a MDN10K (maybe 4th) and then they run the horse in MSW company next out. Then you have owners that pressure the trainer into running the horse back too soon just because there's a race in the book. You don't run a horse when they need time between races. Then you have some owner's push the trainer to run a horse in a NW4L when the horse is eligible for a NW2L. If you don't think this happens, I would be more than willing to show examples. Then you have some owner's that will make the trainer run at a distance that he or she is not capable of getting. I witnessed a trainer that put a horse in (because of the owner) at the distance of 8.5F. The filly in her career never ran past 5F. The filly was running at the 4k level and getting beat pretty bad. Not only was she in at the 8.5F but she was in an ALW race. When owners and trainers do the things above it helps trainers like Beattie to win many more races.

Joe

Mineshaft · 02-05-2009, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotb

I don't think you replied to me. Anyway, I only pointed out her stats because she lost the appeal on Jan 9th. These stats were just for the month of Jan 09. With all the problems that she was facing the horses were still crossing the finish line first at a good clip. I think Kiaran is winning at 27% this year but I could be wrong. I don't think everyone winning over 18% is automatically a cheater. However, when a trainer constantly wins over 30% of their races year in and year out, I would think it's more than just training involved. These type of trainer's have some type of edge. Owners can make a trainer's job much easier when they allow trainer's to jam their horses in spots where the horses just outclass the bunch. This helps trainer's to win many more races.

Some trainer's will not win many races just because of their owners. Many owners in the game are in denial when it comes to their stock. They think their horses are much better than they are. Their horse runs well for a MDN10K (maybe 4th) and then they run the horse in MSW company next out. Then you have owners that pressure the trainer into running the horse back too soon just because there's a race in the book. You don't run a horse when they need time between races. Then you have some owner's push the trainer to run a horse in a NW4L when the horse is eligible for a NW2L. If you don't think this happens, I would be more than willing to show examples. Then you have some owner's that will make the trainer run at a distance that he or she is not capable of getting. I witnessed a trainer that put a horse in (because of the owner) at the distance of 8.5F. The filly in her career never ran past 5F. The filly was running at the 4k level and getting beat pretty bad. Not only was she in at the 8.5F but she was in an ALW race. When owners and trainers do the things above it helps trainers like Beattie to win many more races.

Joe

Exactly 100% correct. It use to be i thought it was the trainers fault for running some of these horses where they were spotted but now im leaning towards the owners getting the final say. Basically there are some people either owners or trainers who have no clue where to spot there horses.

onefast99 · 02-05-2009, 08:48 AM

Interesting how fast everyone forgets Levines big splash at Monmouth this summer he was winning at a 60% clip. Seems since the state came in and took some samples he dropped off quite a bit.

supercap · 02-05-2009, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Practice makes perfect....

I hear Kiaran is hitting 35% at the moment...according to some, anything over 18% means you're cheating...

So are we to believe Kiaran is not a cheater? Maybe you can let us in on who does and doesnt. Let me know your formula for cheating!

cj · 02-05-2009, 11:29 AM

Overall, he is winning at 20% with a 1.91 per $2 bet the last five years. In the last year, he is winning at 24%, but at a lower 1.80 ROI.

With new acquisitions the past five years, he is winning at 18% with an ROI of 1.67 per $2. In the past year, it is 10% with a horrid ROI of 0.64 per $2. I couldn't find a single new horse with a big move up.