Religion III

[Light]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

You pray to God, and you get the help that you need...so, you believe in him. Great! But I've prayed to God too, during some very dire circumstances...and my prayers went unanswered. So...I feel justified in ignoring him as well. Did you think that I abandoned God without a reason?

You remind me of a woman I know who gave me a similar answer when I asked her if she believed in God. She said that she used to believe as a kid. Then one day she really wanted something and she asked God and she gave him a deadline (which I couldn't help but laugh at that point) to make it happen. Nothing happened and she had told God, that if he did not come through for her, that was it. She was done with him and it has been for 50 years.

Just her telling her story brought out the absurdity of her decision to reject God. First you don't "threaten God" with a deadline. Second, things don't always happen on your timetable.

I told her if God is just a Geanie, then everyone would get a million dollars, cars,homes, a great partner etc. But obviously that's not how things work. If you try again,you may be surprised.

I certainly do not get my prayers answered every time. But the times I have I am eternally grateful for.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by Light

I have hard time believing that you believe what you just said. I think you are more intelligent than boxcar than to take the Bible literally. Unlike boxcar you are aware of other spiritual ways and philosophies.

Gurdjieff said “Two things in life are infinite; the stupidity of man and the mercy of God.”

Well how can you like Gurdjieff so much after he contradicts you? According to you, God has no mercy and is just a butcher. According to Gurdjieff, the blame is more on man than God. So why are you listening to Gurdjieff? I agree with him. You don't?

That is the tip of the "iceberg". He also said....

"Conscious faith is freedom. Emotional faith is slavery. Mechanical faith is foolishness.”
― G.I. Gurdjieff

“I ask you to believe nothing that you cannot verify for yourself.”
― G.I. Gurdjieff

https://www.goodreads.com/author/quo....G_I_Gurdjieff

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

No, we do not know. That's why these threads go on ad infinitum.
Too many unknowable's. We present our life experiences here as best as we can.

Different strokes for different folks. However it is evident you won't allow that.

YOU don't know, but some of us DO know. As Jesus said, the door that leads to life is narrow and FEW are those who find it! You obviously are not one of the few.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

The "I" was was referring to is my real self, not my egoic self. You are still under the false impression that when you die you take your ego with you. You don't.

What is your "real self"?

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

YOU don't know, but some of us DO know. As Jesus said, the door that leads to life is narrow and FEW are those who find it! You obviously are not one of the few.

How do you know you are?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

Is it any wonder that you don't know what a heart or soul is?

What I don't know is how one "sticks up" for a heart or soul.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

What is your "real self"?

One way is to get a handle on that is to practice "self-observation" Starting off small with the larger goal of.....

Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
..Mark 13:35

The master is the "real self" It helps to know and understand the false little selves.

A technique of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky, a Forth Way practice

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

One way is to get a handle on that is to practice "self-observation" Starting off small with the larger goal of.....

Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
..Mark 13:35

The master is the "real self" It helps to know and understand the false little selves.

A technique of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky, a Forth Way practice

Your stupid interpretation doesn't fit the larger context of Jesus' remarks. Mark 13, the shortest version of the Mt. Olivet Discourse, is Jesus' prophecty about the end of the [Jewish] Age.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Your stupid interpretation doesn't fit the larger context of Jesus' remarks. Mark 13, the shortest version of the Mt. Olivet Discourse, is Jesus' prophecty about the end of the [Jewish] Age.

You asked about "real self" I gave you a time honored description that Jesus speaks of, which goes back before Jesus. Maybe you "stupid" narrow interpretation is not the whole story. Illustrating my earlier comment......

However it is evident you won't allow that.

....There are other ways that talk about the same stuff.
You refuse to consider or even discuss that.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

You asked about "real self" I gave you a time honored description that Jesus speaks of, which goes back before Jesus. Maybe you "stupid" narrow interpretation is not the whole story. Illustrating my earlier comment......
[/B][/I]....There are other ways that talk about the same stuff.
You refuse to consider or even discuss that.

Jesus wasn't speaking your rubbish. He was giving his disciples a prophecy about when the end of the Jewish Age would take place.

Learn how to read, Humpty.

Here's another time honored truth: A text without context is a pretext.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Light

I have hard time believing that you believe what you just said. I think you are more intelligent than boxcar than to take the Bible literally. Unlike boxcar you are aware of other spiritual ways and philosophies.

Gurdjieff said “Two things in life are infinite; the stupidity of man and the mercy of God.”

Well how can you like Gurdjieff so much after he contradicts you? According to you, God has no mercy and is just a butcher. According to Gurdjieff, the blame is more on man than God. So why are you listening to Gurdjieff? I agree with him. You don't?

I read everything...but I believe NOTHING until I test it out on my own. If its "Truth" resonates with me, then I adopt it...and if it doesn't, then I leave the teaching alone. And this applies to the Bible...the Hindu Vedas, the Buddha Dharma...and the Gurdjieff "Work". Yes...I find much that I agree with in the Gurdjieff teaching. But I also have disagreements with it. I take from it what I find useful...and leave the rest for those who find it more useful for themselves.

I don't believe that "God is a butcher". I believe that mainstream Christianity's version of a "God" doesn't EXIST. And...I don't believe in the "divinity" of the bible. I think the bible is just a series of stories written by some ancient Jewish nomads...where they've declared themselves "God's Chosen People". When I mention the pain and suffering so rampant in our world, it isn't because I am trying to paint God as a "butcher". To me..."Father-God" is BLAMELESS...because he doesn't EXIST! I bring up all the world's suffering so I can understand what the "Believers" mean when they say "ever-loving God". I have seen you repeatedly state here that "God is only Love". You talked about how fond you are of the teaching of Neville Goddard. I had Goddard's books sitting on my bookshelf for years...and I picked one up and started reading it again a few weeks ago. Goddard says that "God is our own Imagination". Neville Goddard calls himself a "Christian"...even though his version of God differs from 99% of the other "Christians". Do you see how different the "Christians" are in their God-beliefs? That's why I ask the God-questions that I do. It isn't because I think God is a "butcher", or that I take the bible literally. It's because I am trying to distinguish one Christian from another. Christianity comes in many different flavors, you know.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Light

You remind me of a woman I know who gave me a similar answer when I asked her if she believed in God. She said that she used to believe as a kid. Then one day she really wanted something and she asked God and she gave him a deadline (which I couldn't help but laugh at that point) to make it happen. Nothing happened and she had told God, that if he did not come through for her, that was it. She was done with him and it has been for 50 years.

Just her telling her story brought out the absurdity of her decision to reject God. First you don't "threaten God" with a deadline. Second, things don't always happen on your timetable.

I told her if God is just a Geanie, then everyone would get a million dollars, cars,homes, a great partner etc. But obviously that's not how things work. If you try again,you may be surprised.

I certainly do not get my prayers answered every time. But the times I have I am eternally grateful for.

I grew up in the most "Christian" country in the world. The Christian dogma has been taught to my since my infancy...and I believed it wholeheartedly up until a certain point. You shouldn't compare me to your lady friend who thought that God was a "Geanie"...because you don't know what "dire circumstances" I was talking about in my post.

"All I know is that when I pray to God, I get help and that's why I believe in the existence and love of God"...you said in a previous post. It's only NOW that you say..."I certainly do not get all my prayers answered every time". In that prior post...you phrased things differently. If you believe in God because he answers your prayers...why should I believe in him if my prayers are ignored? Did I tell you that my prayers had a "time limit"? Why did my post remind you of the Geanie lady? How prompt is God in answering YOUR prayers?

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Light

I have hard time believing that you believe what you just said. I think you are more intelligent than boxcar than to take the Bible literally. Unlike boxcar you are aware of other spiritual ways and philosophies.

Gurdjieff said “Two things in life are infinite; the stupidity of man and the mercy of God.”

Well how can you like Gurdjieff so much after he contradicts you? According to you, God has no mercy and is just a butcher. According to Gurdjieff, the blame is more on man than God. So why are you listening to Gurdjieff? I agree with him. You don't?

Before you say that you "agree with Gurdjieff"...you should also know that Gurdjieff taught that man doesn't have a "soul"...but he can "create a soul for himself through his own effort". Gurdjieff was far from the typical "God-believer".

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

What is your "real self"?

Its your non physical energy. Energy that is not generated by the body. It has no worldly conditioning,ego or personality. And is much more wonderful to experience than your ego.

If you practice meditation, you would get to know your real self which is connected to a broader universal spectrum of energy (including God) than your physical self.

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

What I don't know is how one "sticks up" for a heart or soul.

We all have hearts and souls which our body encapsulates. There is a universal connection between hearts and souls. So if someone is drowning (for example), there is a connection within our hearts that there is no difference between the drowning person and ourselves and we feel a compulsion to save that person or stick up for that person.

However if there is ego involved, such as ""he's a bum, let him drown" the compulsion or need to "stick up" for someone is overridden because the heart and soul are suppressed by the ego.