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Old 08-24-2012, 04:16 PM   #1
rosenowsr
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Unhappy Just received this in the mail





Important Update for Illinois Players
We are writing to make you aware of an upcoming modification to the online wagering (ADW) law in Illinois. Effective August 26th, 2012, all licensed ADWs in Illinois including TwinSpires.com, must impose a .18% (.0018) surcharge on winning wagers and winnings from wagers. The fees collected from this surcharge will be paid to standardbred (harness) purse accounts in Illinois. Also, you may be aware that Off Track Betting locations (OTBs) in Illinois are required to impose a 2.5% surcharge on winning wagers and winnings from wagers.

Please note the results information on the simulcast feeds from our partner racetracks and the results displays of the TwinSpires.com web site will not reflect the deduction for the surcharge. You will be able to see your winnings in the "recall today's bets" section as well as in your "detailed account history" report.

Example of surcharge:
$100 win wager on a horse that pays $10 would return a total of $500. The surcharge would be 90 cents and the wager would return $499.10 to your TwinSpires.com account.

While TwinSpires.com will continue to offer it's "no fees" approach to online wagering, we are required to comply with this new regulation. We value your support of TwinSpires.com and will continue to build on the many free services we currently provide including; wagering services, live video, race replays, Brisnet Ultimate PPs and Super Stats, EZMoney deposits and withdrawals and TSC Elite Rewards.

If you have any questions about the surcharge, please contact player.services@twinspires.com.
Sincerely.
TwinSpires.com Team



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Old 08-24-2012, 09:34 PM   #2
Shemp Howard
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Surcharge, fees, blah, blah, blah.

Why can't they call it what it is...a tax.
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Old 08-25-2012, 01:24 AM   #3
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I suspect this is the beginning of a trend. Other states will jump in on this and then it will be 0.5% then 1% etc.
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Old 08-25-2012, 05:59 AM   #4
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i would quit betting
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Old 08-25-2012, 09:37 AM   #5
Hoofless_Wonder
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The abuse of Illinois horseplayers continues with surcharges, constant hassles over out-of-state signals, and my personal (least) favorite - the inability to subtract losses from winnings when filing taxes.

It would be a little easier to stomach this surcharge if it was going to the thoroughbreds - but to support that god-awful crooked harness racing is sickening.

Along with the abuse of needing a special Firearm Owners ID to exercise my 2nd Amendment rights, I often wonder why I live in this state.
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Old 08-25-2012, 10:10 AM   #6
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So the question is, as an Illinois resident, is there somewhere I can play besides Twinspires to avoid this rediculous tax. I love horseracing, but I am about to throw in the towel.
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Old 08-25-2012, 12:36 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brdman12
So the question is, as an Illinois resident, is there somewhere I can play besides Twinspires to avoid this rediculous tax. I love horseracing, but I am about to throw in the towel.
And the answer is, legally, no, there is no licensed ADW that won't charge the surcharge. It's a state law as far as I can tell.

This whole raising taxes thing is going to work about as well at making money as prohibition did at stopping drinking. The illegal alternatives quickly offer value over the legal options which will drive players offshore.
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Old 08-25-2012, 02:27 PM   #8
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I think it's worth noting that these "surcharges" the Illinois horseplayers are forced to pay are not just taxes on the winning amounts that we receive. Our betting AMOUNT is taxed accordingly as well.

So...when you bet $100 to place on a horse at an Illinois OTB, and you receive a $4.00 payoff...you pay a 2.5% surcharge on the entire $200 that you collect -- not just your $100 profit on the bet.

This is just another way that the game has chosen, in order to mislead the bettors into believing that they are paying a 2.5% surcharge...when they are, in reality, paying a surcharge that is twice that. And this new surcharge is more of the same.

They levy a surcharge on the Illinois bettors for betting at an OTB...even though all the OTBs in the state are owned by the tracks themselves.
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Old 08-25-2012, 03:32 PM   #9
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It sounds to me like only a fool would bet at an Illinois OTB or through an ADW if they are forced to pay the surcharge.

Last edited by cj; 08-25-2012 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 08-25-2012, 03:57 PM   #10
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That's why I shake my head in disbelief when I see serious players getting criticized -- by other horseplayers -- for taking their action overseas.

Loyalty works both ways...

If the game shows no "loyalty" to a serious player...then why should that player be loyal to the game?

In a game where greed seems to reign supreme...I think the time has come for the player to show loyalty only to his pocketbook.
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Last edited by thaskalos; 08-25-2012 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 08-25-2012, 04:30 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
That's why I shake my head in disbelief when I see serious players getting criticized -- by other horseplayers -- for taking their action overseas.

Loyalty works both ways...

If the game shows no "loyalty" to a serious player...then why should that player be loyal to the game?

In a game where greed seems to reign supreme...I think the time has come for the player to show loyalty only to his pocketbook.
I hear you, but I'm still against taking your money offshore. I understand the reasons though, and I couldn't be upset at someone who does.
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Old 08-25-2012, 04:31 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamboguy
i would quit betting
Many of us have. For many reasons such as this.

I agree with the previous post. It's a horseplayers tax. Plain and simple.

Last edited by JustRalph; 08-25-2012 at 04:32 PM.
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Old 08-25-2012, 04:51 PM   #13
Tom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shemp Howard

Why can't they call it what it is...ROBBERY!
FTFY
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Old 08-25-2012, 06:06 PM   #14
Jeff P
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I very much would like to make a post telling you that it was the Illinois Horsemen who are responsible for this.

But that isn’t the whole truth.

The whole truth is that horseplayers everywhere are responsible for this – because we are the ones who keep enabling it.

It has become crystal clear that horsemen have been (silently and behind the scenes) waging a war against the horseplayer for some time now.

Horsemen are organized and well funded. They have been able to hire lobbyists who in turn have been able to exert quite a bit of political influence on horsemen’s behalf at the state government level.

Their preferred method of attack against the horseplayer goes something like this:

Hire lobbyists and “sick-em” on the staff consultants and the men and women elected to public office at the State House of Representatives and the State Senate, as well as at the Governor’s Office and press for a change in state law. Find a State Assemblyman or a State Senator willing to sponsor a bill written by the horsemen to “save” racing.

Language is written into a new bill that calls for money to be removed from the wallets of horseplayers and handed over to horsemen. The bill goes into committee where staff consultants working for elected Assemblymen and State Senators “analyze” it. A “statistical analysis” that has been prepared by the horsemen or better yet one that has been prepared by horsemen and “rubber stamped” by the state Racing Commission accompanies the bill.

Of course, in every case, these statistical analysis reports are flawed because they completely ignore the fact that racing handle is price sensitive. Whenever the cost of making a bet goes up (source market fee) or the payout returned for making a winning bet is lowered (a takeout increase) – handle numbers respond by going down.

From there, lobbyists present the horsemen’s side of things to members of the Legislature (over lunch and cocktails.) In essence, the Legislature and Governor’s Office is told “Racing is in dire financial straights. We need you to pass this bill to save racing.”

With support from the racing industry (the horsemen) and with little or no opposition from the public (the bettors) - the bill comes out of committee - gets voted on and passed - and is signed into law by the Governor.

As evidence, I give you Exhibit A:

In Virginia, it was a 10% ADW source market fee. In Washington, it was a 7% ADW source market fee. In California, it was a 6.5% ADW source market fee. As if that weren’t enough, California’s horsemen went back and asked the Legislature for more. SB1072 which became state law on Jan 01, 2011 increased the takeout on exotics wagers for the live racing product by 9.7% for two horse bets and 14.5% for three horse bets respectively. In Wyoming, it was a 5% ADW source market fee. In Oregon, it was a 5% ADW source market fee. Kentucky is currently considering an “ADW registration fee.” In Texas, ADW wagering was outlawed. In Arizona, betting on a horse race from “outside the racing enclosure” was made a Class 6 Felony.

The question isn’t “How many states are going to enact similar legislation?”

The answer (if we as horseplayers sit idly by and allow it to happen) is: “ALL of them.”

The only way we as horseplayers prevent this from happening in other states, and get it reversed in the states where it has already happened, is to stand up for ourselves and fight back.

That means becoming organized (through HANA or some other horseplayer’s organization.) That means growing the organization virally. I’m talking about volunteer soldiers on the ground signing up new horseplayer members, raising significant money, writing letters (by the thousands) to elected representatives, hiring our own lobbyists – and seeing to it that State Legislatures are made aware of OUR side of things.

Until or unless we are willing to do that – expect the horsemen to keep waging war on us – and expect them to keep winning that war.

The real question is: Are we as horseplayers EVER going to get serious about fighting back?

Jeff Platt
President, HANA

HANA Sign Up Link:
http://visitor.r20.constantcontact.c...SBooHZlKL7-MLc



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Last edited by Jeff P; 08-25-2012 at 06:10 PM.
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Old 08-29-2012, 12:26 PM   #15
castaway01
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This increase is just another example of racing's total ignorance of PR or how to treat the bettor. From what I have read, this surcharge goes to benefit harness racing purses in Illinois. While the surcharge itself is extremely small (not even 1/5 of 1 percent), that's the part I don't understand---why would you go through the trouble of taxing bettors such a tiny amount? Critics can rightfully point out that taxes were raised, and the amount of money generated (based on last year's wagering it would be less than $200,000) won't do a thing to save the dying harness tracks in Illinois. It just makes no sense.
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