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Old 08-08-2017, 04:34 PM   #31
DeanT
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HANA Statement on the Keeneland Takeout Increase


It was announced today that long-time horseplayer friendly racetrack Keeneland has raised their takeout rates. Win wagering, which was at 16% takeout, will now be taxed at 17.5%, while all other bets will go from 19% to 22%. The pick 5 takeout, previously at 19%, will be 15%.


This fall, Keeneland’s exacta and daily double takeouts will be among the highest in North America.


In 2009, outgoing Keeneland President Nick Nicholson said, “We’re very gratified to know that our efforts to promote large, quality fields, a wide variety of wagering options and a reasonable takeout rate have been recognized….. Keeneland is enthusiastic about the future and we’re committed to getting even better.”


Keeneland, as a non-profit under the leadership of strong executives like Nick Nicholson, had always placed an emphasis on their betting customers, with an eye to the long term health of the sport. Wagering customers were considered a part of the economic engine of racing, were catered to, and always felt home at Keeneland. This, in part, spurred handle increases in a sport suffering massive handle losses. Their strategy was clearly working. Now, it appears that the new management team has gone the way of so many corporate racetracks by only looking at the short term numbers, and listening to stakeholders who yell the loudest.

"I was part of a group from HANA that spent a week visiting Keeneland back in April 2009," recalled HANA President Jeff Platt. "On the day we left Nick Nicholson presented our group with a Keeneland poster which he signed. Above his signature are the words, 'Horseplayers will always be welcome at Keeneland.' Right now I'm not sure if that's true anymore."



The Horseplayers Association of North America is extremely disappointed with the new Keeneland management's decision and will have further announcements after talking with our members.

Posted by HANA at 2:23 PM
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Old 08-08-2017, 04:45 PM   #32
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This game started off as the "Sport of Kings". It has now become, the "Sport of Fools".
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Old 08-08-2017, 05:29 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by thaskalos View Post
This game started off as the "Sport of Kings". It has now become, the "Sport of Fools".

If all the regulars stop betting, that will fix it fast.

Let the rebaters try and win betting against $1 show bettors.

Handle will drop 50% overnight. Takeout will be lowered within a week.

Won't do it? Then suffer.

No one is forced to bet at any particular track . But they seem to rely on the inertia of horseplayers to truly act as a block. Who can blame them, they know their customer.

Last edited by AltonKelsey; 08-08-2017 at 05:31 PM. Reason: add
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Old 08-08-2017, 05:30 PM   #34
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Players have to organize a boycott that really stings and sends a clear message to both Keeneland and the industry.

It should be way easier to organize now than it has been in the past. There are a lot of serious players here, on Twitter, and on Facebook. If someone can get the ball rolling on Twitter and here (and everyone starts retweeting it) the message can get out to a LOT of players and do some noticeable damage to handle.
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Last edited by classhandicapper; 08-08-2017 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 08-08-2017, 05:36 PM   #35
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Ian Meyers @ihmeyers KEE exec "I hope the public understands that this is going to purses... not going into our pockets" Bullshit. Your host fee went up too


Since when is higher purses an excuse to rape the bettor? Stop paying such stupid prices for unraced horses, then you wont need $100,000 maiden races.

This is the same bogus argument ripoff shopkeepers use to overcharge. They blame the rent. Who tells them to pay the sick rent?

Basically, some folks are getting very rich off the bettors backs.

Last edited by AltonKelsey; 08-08-2017 at 05:39 PM. Reason: add
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Old 08-08-2017, 05:43 PM   #36
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Can anyone tell me what Andy just said about this on Twitter....I cant follow those broken texts.
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Old 08-08-2017, 06:00 PM   #37
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Have trouble buying the high take out multiple bet is better than a low take out single bet.

MAYBE true, but only compared to the parlay. Not long term results.

Not sure how to prove the math on this.


Taken to extreme, a 90% takeout pick 9 can be said to be better than a 15% win pool.

Does that make sense to anyone here? Andy seems to think so.
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Old 08-08-2017, 06:08 PM   #38
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Have trouble buying the high take out multiple bet is better than a low take out single bet.

MAYBE true, but only compared to the parlay. Not long term results.

Not sure how to prove the math on this.


Taken to extreme, a 90% takeout pick 9 can be said to be better than a 15% win pool.

Does that make sense to anyone here? Andy seems to think so.
AndyC explained it best here:


http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...3&postcount=28
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Old 08-08-2017, 06:15 PM   #39
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HANA Statement on the Keeneland Takeout Increase


It was announced

"I was part of a group from HANA that spent a week visiting Keeneland back in April 2009," recalled HANA President Jeff Platt. "On the day we left Nick Nicholson presented our group with a Keeneland poster which he signed. Above his signature are the words, 'Horseplayers will always be welcome at Keeneland.' Right now I'm not sure if that's true anymore."



The Horseplayers Association of North America is extremely disappointed with the new Keeneland management's decision and will have further announcements after talking with our members.

Posted by HANA at 2:23 PM
Not sure? Disappointed? Talk with Members?

Weakness!
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Old 08-08-2017, 06:15 PM   #40
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Good post...losing at a slower pace allows you to get more entertainment value for your dollar, which for most of us thats what this game is, entertainment.
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Old 08-08-2017, 06:17 PM   #41
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Just play the Pick 5. Boycott all the bets where the tax went up.
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Old 08-08-2017, 06:36 PM   #42
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Just play the Pick 5. Boycott all the bets where the tax went up.
Easy to say, but not easy to hit. Kind of kills churn too. I know if I hit a P5 for 10k, it isn't coming back to the pools any time soon.
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Old 08-08-2017, 06:42 PM   #43
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Easy to say, but not easy to hit. Kind of kills churn too. I know if I hit a P5 for 10k, it isn't coming back to the pools any time soon.
That's the object of the game for us.. They made the rule not I.
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Old 08-08-2017, 06:46 PM   #44
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That's the object of the game for us.. They made the rule not I.
I agree, just not for me. I'll play elsewhere.
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Old 08-08-2017, 07:11 PM   #45
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Just play the Pick 5. Boycott all the bets where the tax went up.
If there is a boycott, it shouldn't be just a few bets, or just Keeneland. It should be for all USA racing for some meaningful period of time. There shouldn't be any built-in excuses for handle shifting to other wagers or tracks. Just suggest that everyone take a break from the game for a few weeks. The crappy product is everywhere.

Perhaps HANA could put out a guide for giving up horse racing, with tables showing the rake for better alternatives. There could be sections on poker or other sports wagering as alternatives. Or suggesting HK or Australian racing. Maybe re-purposing your binoculars for bird watching.

The industry has been spitting in the eyes of horseplayers for years. It's time to start spitting back.
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