New DRF pace indicators

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

There was some internal debate about which symbols to use and I suppose they could be changed rather easily depending on feedback.

That's nice to hear Class. Thank you!

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

I'm set in my ways I don't need that stuff!!

I picture you as a 21 year old in a basement, living the life. Don't ruin the image

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

I picture you as a 45 year old living in your parents basement, living the life. Don't ruin the image

I fixed your post.

[ArlJim78]

Forget about new symbols I wish they would do something about that awful website. I cringe when I see it, on the odd occasion that I want to use their product.

[mountainman]

I've often contended that the competitive intensity of the pace-the quality of the splits, in a sense- should carry more weight than actual fractions. And although more and more handicappers now consider race-flow a big factor,T there's still value when it contradicts the splits.

And it's also been my observation that fractions tend to cluster at certain distances over some surfaces. Sometimes much faster horses, even when urged, run splits oddly similar to slower animals.

[ultracapper]

Originally Posted by mountainman

[B]I've often contended that the competitive intensity of the pace-the quality of the splits, in a sense- should carry more weight than actual fractions. [/B]And although more and more handicappers now consider race-flow a big factor,T there's still value when it contradicts the splits.

And it's also been my observation that fractions tend to cluster at certain distances over some surfaces. Sometimes much faster horses, even when urged, run splits oddly similar to slower animals.

I'm with you on this, and it seems to me that the new DRF product is trying to address that. It will be interesting. What will be very important is the competence of the person determining whether to grade the race, and to what degree it should be graded.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker

I fixed your post.

Hey......That's my little buddy...Not funny! (although if it was aimed at someone else it would be )

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by Tom

Speaking of DRF symbols, what do they running style letters mean in the Winner's books? P-M-C Closer, presser, middle? They used to publish the key as to how many lengths each was, but not recently.

I haven't been able to find anyone that knows the specs off the top of their head and I don't use the Winner's Book much. If I can find the answer I'll let you know, but it make be as simple as whether the horse was in the top 1/3 of the field, middle 1/3, or last 1/3.

[bello]

Originally Posted by mountainman

I've often contended that the competitive intensity of the pace-the quality of the splits, in a sense- should carry more weight than actual fractions. And although more and more handicappers now consider race-flow a big factor,T there's still value when it contradicts the splits.

And it's also been my observation that fractions tend to cluster at certain distances over some surfaces. Sometimes much faster horses, even when urged, run splits oddly similar to slower animals.

Once again why there is no substitute to actually watching a race, making your own trip notes and drawing conclusions from there. Before I got into T'bread racing I was solely a harness player. First at Monticello and then at yor neighboring Northfield....Without the visuals and trip notes, you might as well not bet.

BTW Moutainman, you should weigh in on the bias thread. Mountaineer has the most pronounced bias' I have ever seen. Why one MUST lesten to you if they are going to bet there as you will let us know who was compromised and who was not.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I would love to post a write up detailing how the symbols are derived, how they are intended to be used, and how I personally use them, but I work for DRF and don't want to post an unpaid advertisement. That kind of thing is also outside my responsibilities at DRF. DRF will soon be holding webinars with Kenny Peck where he'll explain it better and give examples of how he uses the information.

These pace-flow symbols should have been in numerical form...so they could be applied to more races in the PPs. In their current "H" and "S" form...they only appear in a tiny percentage of the races.

Maybe with the NEXT price increase...

[Capper Al]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

These pace-flow symbols should have been in numerical form...so they could be applied to more races in the PPs. In their current "H" and "S" form...they only appear in a tiny percentage of the races.

Maybe with the NEXT price increase...

More number to pencil in? Come over to the dark side and use a spreadsheet!

[cj]

I checked these out some to see if they match Moss pace figures, but they don't. They actually often contradict each other. Good luck explaining that one.

[cj]

More things that make you go hmmmm.

[Delta Cone]

The list of things Todd Schrupp doesn't understand is a pretty long one.

DRF has said over and over and over again that the pace ratings don't use fractional times as a primary factor. Not sure why that's too hard to understand.

"Pace Ace provides information based on how races shape up in terms of pace using running styles and how a race was run, as opposed to strictly using race fractions."

http://www.drf.com/news/peck-pace-ac...affects-horses

[cj]

Originally Posted by Delta Cone

The list of things Todd Schrupp doesn't understand is a pretty long one.

DRF has said over and over and over again that the pace ratings don't use fractional times as a primary factor. Not sure why that's too hard to understand.

"Pace Ace provides information based on how races shape up in terms of pace using running styles and how a race was run, as opposed to strictly using race fractions."

http://www.drf.com/news/peck-pace-ac...affects-horses

If you can't use times to determine the pace, I'll just say good luck with that. DRF can say how they do these things over and over again. If people know it doesn't make sense, what is the value? It would be like me making speed figures but telling people "I don't really consider race times".