Hey InnerDirt...this is up your alley

[PaceAdvantage]

Could this possibly be true?

You must be very rich...didn't you produce stuff like this for the US Gov't?

YouTube

[OntheRail]

Come on you're old enough to remember the Government paying $640.00 for toilet seats.

That is how those off the books black ops are funded...

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by OntheRail

Come on you're old enough to remember the Government paying $640.00 for toilet seats.

That is how those off the books black ops are funded...

That makes sense and I found the same suggestion elsewhere. I also found that what seem like ordinary bushings are really quite sophisticated and not all all easy to manufacture properly. If they are not made correctly, the consequences to a jet engine could be bad. That’s not to say they are worth $90,000 a bag.

[mostpost]

If sure Congressman Waltz knows all this. He’s just grandstanding. I am also certain the Acme Bushings company doesn’t get $90,000 for every bag of bushings it sells.

[Tom]

Yeah, you would know.

[PaceAdvantage]

It's amazing anyone still responds to mostpost

He's literally nothing but a PR machine for the establishment

He has become exactly what he used to rail against on this very board about 10-15 years ago

sad

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

It's amazing anyone still responds to mostpost

He's literally nothing but a PR machine for the establishment

He has become exactly what he used to rail against on this very board about 10-15 years ago

sad

Yet here you are responding to mostpost. And with the exact same phrase you just used in another thread.

[Tom]

He was not talking to YOU, MORON.
But thanks for proving again what a dope you are.

[Inner Dirt]

I made things like in the bag from 2008-2012. I had to throw in the towel when I moved to Virginia as my current and past internet service are too slow for all the government security.


I will take a shot and bid the job at what I would if I was bidding a small DOD contract. It is difficult to make an educated off that visual.

Comparing the bag to the size of a typical man's hand that is a 4" x 8" bag 1/3 full. Counting how many parts that would fit across I would say you have 250 parts that are 1/4" diameter x 1/2" long. Jet engine parts
the material requirement is most likely Titanium-6AL-4V commonly referred to as grade 5. Most people are scarred shitless to machine it as it can catch fire and if you don't dial it in properly using correct feeds, speed, tooling and machining methods machining costs will easily put a job in the red.


If you know what you are doing titanium is nothing to be afraid of, but since most shops don't you can charge a premium for making parts out of it.



I charge variable hourly rates due to degree of difficulty and what I am competing against. Believe it or not a lot of these small contract DOD job end up earning less an hour than if you sold to the private sector. You may get more an hour, but paperwork, packaging, and shipping requirements can add a lot of time.


This job I would quote at $75 an hour and run it so slow it would only need attention every 10 hrs. I would go make parts in my sleep, figure they have some degree of difficulty, 20 hours program, set-up and run. Since they go to the Air Force those are replacement parts, they get individual bag and tag and in a box with an RFID tag, FTS in my condition I pay a packing house $200 to do that work. Figure $1 each for material, $50 for tooling. My bid on that job is $2,000.


Next post I will give a likely explanation for pricey toilet seats and why Mike Waltz is a lying piece of crap or passing on a cock and bull story he was told. By the way he is a Republican and an embarrassment for the party, f**k him and the whore he probably slept with last night.

[Inner Dirt]

The following are the reasons why I think this story is a fabrication by either Congressman Waltz, one of his staff, or someone who mislead them. I am trusting the part of the story that bag of bushings are property of the United States Air Force or were. Since the Air Force bought them that means they are replacement parts used for Aircraft repair or scheduled maintenance, many items on military equipment are replaced on a schedule, others are replaced as they where out or are damaged in an accident.


Those are jet engine parts, that makes them a critical application item. You have to mark them with your cage code which is your company I.D. if the item is too small to mark with stamping, engraving or a laser, it has to be individually put in a plastic back with a label glued on a stapled shut.


250 or so small jet engine bushings in one bag doesn't pass the smell test.
Those are not an off the shelf item anywhere, they are custom made to order. Those are made to DOD small contracts with each contract managed by a Federal Procurement Officer. There is nothing small about all the fine print or instructions in the contracts. Any company that meets the criteria in the contract can bid on the lot and the job always goes to the lowest bidder, the only way a job will repeat is if you are low bidder again.



You have to have all kinds of certifications to do critical application items, most of those don't cost a dime, just a bunch of paperwork to fill out and agree you can be audited at any time. I did have to produce a few sworn notarized statements, like I would only source raw materials from advanced countries that were allies of the United States and all raw materials used are traceable.


If a critical application item fails and causes death and destruction they want to know whose ass to fry and anything else you may have made.
I just grabbed a stack of contracts I completed and noticed some of the certifications I had i wonder if they are still good? if they ever hook up the fiber optic cable I may go fish around. There is a big learning curve to do that work.


I am/was certified under the joint USA/Canadian certification program, that makes me a bad mofo, the Canadian Military trusts me along with the USA. I am also certified to have control over classified technical data with military and space applications. That means I can look at a drawing of a B-52 engine down load it and print it out as long ad it is for my eyes only.
I just looked at some of the solicitations I fulfilled. One of them was 20 pages long where I scored a fat $462.00. That was my niche, small jobs I could complete quickly, often I would spend more time with paperwork, packing and shipping the making the parts. The back page on that contract was scribbled run 1 pack 2, scrap, used, $15. It took 1 hour to make the 3 parts 2 hours packing, shipping, and billing. I used a piece of stock leftover from another job already paid for. Used meant I used tooling paid for by another job that still had life left in it. The $15 was what I paid to ship it. Ok, enough from the memory lane trips doing DOD work. I will talk $640 toilet seats next.


P.S. Another issue that does not pass the smell test, those parts were either shipped by the vendor to either a Defense Distribution Depot, a military base, or in a rare case a Tier 1 aircraft builder, you cannot legally walk out or drive out of any of those locations legally with aircraft parts property of USAF.

[Inner Dirt]

I just spent a good amount of time looking for details on $640 toilet seats and $450 hammers. I just found stories lacking any details, a source passing on something they heard. I am sure it happens, and the reasons vary of which none were listed. If someone has a story with decent details of something like $640 toilet seats, post a link.


Back to the $90,000 bag of bushings, the way congressman Waltz spews misinformation while talking out his ass, when Trump wins he should make him Press Secretary.


I need to see the whole video, this looks like Daily Mail quoting Congressman Waltz:


This, Mr. Secretary, is a bag of bushings,' he began. 'This bag of bushings, stamped out by machines, don't need a high school diploma, nothing high tech about this, all of this bag is compliant with the FAA specifications. 'How much do you think the Air Force pays for this bag of bushings?'
Kendall responded that he 'didn't know', leading Waltz to quickly clarify: '$90,000.'


Bushings are essential components of engines, and the small rotating parts are typically placed between joint mounts for vibration absorption, rotation support and thermal resistance.

Branding the cost 'exorbitant', Waltz noted that the Department of Defense sources all commercial parts directly from original equipment manufacturers, meaning they should be cheaper than off-the-shelf items.

However, while everyday Americans can expect to pay roughly $100 for the bag of bushings, Waltz questioned why the taxpayers were footing the bill for the huge markup.



F**k this stupid piece of shit, he needs to STFU, he is running his mouth
about something he has zero knowledge of. WTF is wrong with politicians these days?



Titanium bushings, titanium being a very common modern jet engine material are not stamped or manufactured by any forming methods they are made on turning machines called lathes of which I own 4. Turning requires a much smaller investment in tooling and fixture, time to make your first part and can make more detail feature with better accuracy.
With a CNC Lathe (Computer Numerical Control) I could make what I am guessing what is in that bag with a set of tools costing $100 or less,
an hour to write a computer code program, just using MS Notepad cutting and pasting, then 1-2 hours to get the job running. So $100 and 3 hours skilled labor I am starting to fill that bag.


Ok let us stamp them like Mike "the dumbass" Waltz says they are made. First no such thing as ordering $100 of tooling from a McMaster Carr, Graingers or MSC. Stuff I stock in bulk as the computer control can turn thousands of different configurations from the same common tools. The poor stamping machine cannot do that, it needs a custom designed set of tools for parts that are so similar with a naked eye you cannot tell them apart. Those sets of carbide dies cost thousands
and you would be lucky to get one made in a week. Also once you get the dies it takes about a week to set-up a forming machine, not a couple hours.



The only advantage the stamping machine has on mine is if a part is a good fit it can spit them out faster, but if I have a 1-2 week head start
and $5,000 extra in my wallet it is going to take the stamping machine a good while to catch up. When I worked for an military/aerospace connector manufacture, minimum order for the stamping/forming machines was 50,000 pieces.



Don't need a High School diploma and nothing is high tech? Even if he is
talking about a stamping machine, the guys that set-up and run those machines, and the tooling support guys are highly skilled and are at top pay at the plants they work in. To just set-up and operate the CNC Lathe is easier, I bet I could give that piece of shit Waltz the stack of operator manuals and he probably could not turn it on, home it in and warm it up if I gave him a week to figure it out on it's own.



Last but not least:


Waltz noted that the Department of Defense sources all commercial parts directly from original equipment manufacturers, meaning they should be cheaper than off-the-shelf items.

Off the shop items which means they can have multiple applications
ALWAYS cost more from the OEM, MR STUPID F**K CONGRESSMEN.
Go buy a ribbed encoder belt from McMaster Carr, the OEM Star Micronics charges $150, MCM $15.00. Power supply similar to the standard PC ones just higher voltages but same physical and wire size. At Star Micronics they are $600, Newegg or the like $60 gets two.

I am thinking of writing his office a very unflattering e-mail letting him know how stupid he is and ask him to provide the cage code of the manufacturer of those bushings or the solicitation number they were manufactured under. That information is available to any person with a cage code which I have. I would need to have the fiber optic to reset passwords or I could asses the info from the local library. I can look up the order to verify the cost, even if someone just marked up an "off the shelf" item.


Maybe I should look up his next opponent and provide them with info to crap on his ass. A Republican just made my hate list.

One more, metal bushings DO NOT absorb vibration, nor are they thermal resistant.

[PaceAdvantage]

Given your multiple rants above...did you ever establish whether the $90,000 was some sort of valid cost?

Or are you saying he's lying about the $90,000? If so, I'm sure there would be many "fact-checkers" out there saying it didn't cost the Gov't $90,000.

So if it did cost the gov't $90,000, you're defending that price? It's kind of hard to tell with all your other stuff going on in those posts.

A simple yes or no will suffice.

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Given your multiple rants above...did you ever establish whether the $90,000 was some sort of valid cost?

Or are you saying he's lying about the $90,000? If so, I'm sure there would be many "fact-checkers" out there saying it didn't cost the Gov't $90,000.

So if it did cost the gov't $90,000, you're defending that price? It's kind of hard to tell with all your other stuff going on in those posts.

A simple yes or no will suffice.

Yes, it made me blow a gasket, one of my pet peeves is people who act knowledgeable on a subject they do not know squat about. He also insulted me, my fellow tradesman, and anyone that has to navigate the crap to do DOD work.


To answer your question is YES, I 100% believe those parts did not cost anywhere near $90,000. I would estimate closer to $2,000.

A bunch of media idiots have ran with Walz's claim that bag should cost $100 and are now spreading it like the truth. Those are likely grade 5 titanium which is very pricey unless you get a large mill run. That bag represents probably about $250 of titanium round rod, in small volumes it cost about $200 a pound.



The problem is to fact check, you would need either the company that made them to come forward, or have Waltz provide that information, then you need someone with DOD Defense Logistics Information website access.



You then can look up the procurement history of those parts. It will show Cage Code (That identifies the manufacturer) delivery date, quantity and cost each. All of those things will vary, the pricing bounces up and down with the the economy. A lot of people falsely believe it is easy high paying work so during a manufacturing down turn you get a lot of new contractors
that not only are desperate for work have no idea what they are getting themselves into and will price themselves way too low.


This is not a situation where Eye Witness News can easily investigate. It would take connections and someone knowledgeable of DOD DLI paperwork and procedures. That would be me if I get good internet and all my clearances are still valid, if some have expired I could get them back, as unlike on websites where liberals hang out I have no infractions to my name. I had a 100% on time delivery and quality rating with zero paperwork violations.



I will keep an eye on this story, if no one pursues that has the right tools I may assemble a team and do it myself. I consider what Waltz did a major atrocity. Call out politicians and government agencies all you want, but do it with solid facts, not lies. My "team" will be me and the ex-girlfriend, since

she is an ex high level fed employee, still knows people and the system, I am sure she can point me in the right direction.



Usually she tells me I get too riled up and let it pass, but when I tell her I want to give a Republican hell she will be 100% on board.



Sorry about not providing just a yes or no, the following turned it into an essay question:


I'm sure there would be many "fact-checkers" out there saying it didn't cost the Gov't $90,000.


Even though I did say low bidder gets the job if no one like me opened that solicitation and just those scared shitless of titanium made a $90,000 bid the lowest, it would not be accepted. There are standards where they try not to pay more than a set percentage over the previous high procurement price. If a $90,000 bid was the lowest all bidders would be notified to re-submit at a lower price if still interested and they would also contact everyone in the procurement history that did not bid and ask for a submission of a bid.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

To answer your question is YES, I 100% believe those parts did not cost anywhere near $90,000. I would estimate closer to $2,000.

So there must be a billion links on the web by now fact-checking and saying the Air Force did NOT pay $90,000 for that bag.

Or did they?

If they did pay $90,000 for that bag, then how is Waltz wrong for bringing it up?

All I need is for someone to show me the link where they prove Waltz was lying and the gov't did NOT pay $90,000 for that bag.

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

So there must be a billion links on the web by now fact-checking and saying the Air Force did NOT pay $90,000 for that bag.

Or did they?

If they did pay $90,000 for that bag, then how is Waltz wrong for bringing it up?

All I need is for someone to show me the link where they prove Waltz was lying and the gov't did NOT pay $90,000 for that bag.

He would not be wrong if in fact $90,000 was paid for a bag of parts where the reasonable price is a fraction of that. The thing is with my knowledge of how things related work I see a ton of red flags that led to either someone lying to sell a false narrative or someone setting up Congressmen Waltz to look like a stupid fool. You are not going to quickly have links proving the story false because what was paid for the parts is not public information, you have to be allowed access and know what you are digging for. Obviously the more information you are privy to the faster you could hit pay dirt.



Like I said in one or many of my ramblings Mr. Waltz should in no way shape or form be in possession of USAF property manufactured under a DOD contract. How could $90k of parts walk out of a Defense Dept. Distribution Depot, Air Force Base or an air craft hanger at a defense contractor assembly location?


Even if this is 100% real, someone committed a crime to get that bag to the congressman. Stealing property worth over $1,000 belonging to the United States Military is frowned open and can get you 10 years in prison.


I doubt someone would be stupid enough to risk 10 years in prison to prove the government gets hosed by DOD contractors. An insider could do it without possessing the parts or committing larceny if they found someone with legal access to all documents.