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11-19-2013, 03:43 AM
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#301
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 25,607
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Maybe the best person to answer this next question would be Cannon, but if anyone has any theories, please jump in.
It seems to be that the NYRA tracks and maybe the monmouth main track are different than the surfaces at Parx, Laurel, Penn National, CharlesTown, Mountaineer. Nyra tracks and monmouth will get super speed favoring on occasion, where you just can't gain...but i can't remember too much of a difference with Laurel, Penn, CT, Mtn and tracks like that, those tracks all seem consistent, in other words, when i handicap at those places, i don't normally worry about speed being king, if i bet a closer at Parx, and there's some pace battle, i dont have to worry about getting caught up in some bias, but in NY and sometimes at Monmouth, those biases can become unbeatable.
It almost seems that those tracks i mentioned are "deep" and tiring and in order to wire the field there, you have to be dead fit and really well spotted.
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11-22-2013, 08:34 AM
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#302
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 489
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stillriledup
Maybe the best person to answer this next question would be Cannon, but if anyone has any theories, please jump in.
It seems to be that the NYRA tracks and maybe the monmouth main track are different than the surfaces at Parx, Laurel, Penn National, CharlesTown, Mountaineer. Nyra tracks and monmouth will get super speed favoring on occasion, where you just can't gain...but i can't remember too much of a difference with Laurel, Penn, CT, Mtn and tracks like that, those tracks all seem consistent, in other words, when i handicap at those places, i don't normally worry about speed being king, if i bet a closer at Parx, and there's some pace battle, i dont have to worry about getting caught up in some bias, but in NY and sometimes at Monmouth, those biases can become unbeatable.
It almost seems that those tracks i mentioned are "deep" and tiring and in order to wire the field there, you have to be dead fit and really well spotted.
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There might be a question in there but I'm not exactly sure.
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11-22-2013, 10:02 AM
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#303
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 946
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cannon shell
There might be a question in there but I'm not exactly sure.
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join the crowd
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11-23-2013, 02:58 PM
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#304
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Why does a trainer enter a horse for the reduced price in a claiming race? For example: Claiming price $25,000, if for $23,500, allowed 2 lbs. I find it hard to believe that 2 lbs. is enough to make a difference in the result.
Is this just hanging a "For Sale" sign on the horse? Or is it reverse psychology, to make it look like you want to get rid of the horse so no one will claim it?
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12-20-2013, 05:32 PM
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#305
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 25,607
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What's a "regular" gelding?
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12-20-2013, 08:36 PM
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#306
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 517
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As opposed to a ridgling maybe?
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12-20-2013, 09:04 PM
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#307
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,668
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Clocker
Why does a trainer enter a horse for the reduced price in a claiming race? For example: Claiming price $25,000, if for $23,500, allowed 2 lbs. I find it hard to believe that 2 lbs. is enough to make a difference in the result.
Is this just hanging a "For Sale" sign on the horse? Or is it reverse psychology, to make it look like you want to get rid of the horse so no one will claim it?
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Don't over-think it, clock. The lower tag is often a hint that the connections might have entertained an even cheaper option. To be honest, however, few trainers really give scale-prices much thought. And when making the entry has been delegated to an ast or jocks agent, the tag probably has not even been addressed.
Last edited by mountainman; 12-20-2013 at 09:06 PM.
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12-20-2013, 09:18 PM
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#308
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 5,005
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Ask a Trainer.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stillriledup
What's a "regular" gelding?
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Not an "equipment change," i.e. not a "new" gelding. In other words, there may be a typo in the program listing the horse as a colt, but he's actually a gelding (but has been a gelding for some time, not just cut).
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12-20-2013, 09:25 PM
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#309
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mountainman
Don't over-think it, clock. The lower tag is often a hint that the connections might have entertained an even cheaper option. To be honest, however, few trainers really give scale-prices much thought. And when making the entry has been delegated to an ast or jocks agent, the tag probably has not even been addressed.
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My question was really about the thought process of the connections regarding weight. When handicapping a race, I assume that a couple pounds of weight can't affect the outcome of the race. I am just wondering if the connections think it makes any difference.
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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12-20-2013, 09:35 PM
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#310
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,668
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Clocker
My question was really about the thought process of the connections regarding weight. When handicapping a race, I assume that a couple pounds of weight can't affect the outcome of the race. I am just wondering if the connections think it makes any difference.
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Naw, in non-stakes races it's an afterthought at best.
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12-20-2013, 11:54 PM
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#311
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 25,607
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ocala Mike
Not an "equipment change," i.e. not a "new" gelding. In other words, there may be a typo in the program listing the horse as a colt, but he's actually a gelding (but has been a gelding for some time, not just cut).
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Hmmm, good points Mike, that might be it..i saw "regular gelding" on the scroll at Hollywood and it didnt seem to make sense to me what that meant.
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12-21-2013, 04:18 PM
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#312
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,893
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mountainman
Don't over-think it, clock. The lower tag is often a hint that the connections might have entertained an even cheaper option. To be honest, however, few trainers really give scale-prices much thought. And when making the entry has been delegated to an ast or jocks agent, the tag probably has not even been addressed.
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Any trainer that delegates this responsibility to a jocks' agent should be fired ASAP.
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12-21-2013, 05:27 PM
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#313
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,668
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike
Any trainer that delegates this responsibility to a jocks' agent should be fired ASAP.
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Actually, it's very common. There are several reasons lots of trainers operate like this, and I can detail a few if you'd like.
You do understand that the agent never PICKS the spots, correct?
Last edited by mountainman; 12-21-2013 at 05:31 PM.
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12-21-2013, 05:33 PM
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#314
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,893
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mountainman
Actually, it's very common. There are several reasons lots of trainers operate like this, and I can detail a few if you'd like.
You do understand that the agent never PICKS the spots, correct?
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Yes, I understand the process. I stand by my prior statement - I wasn't questioning your assertion in any way.
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12-21-2013, 05:47 PM
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#315
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,668
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike
Yes, I understand the process. I stand by my prior statement - I wasn't questioning your assertion in any way.
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Then, with all respect, sir, you think Bob Baffert, Allen Jerkens and Lou Ruberto should each be fired? Because that's how they roll.
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